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TPS Sensor Setup for F4 1000 R - 2007 - can this be correct ?

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5K views 18 replies 7 participants last post by  revhead1957  
#1 ·
Hello guys i´am standing for my next problem - perhaps anybody can help me with some informations.

The problem:
My F4 was not idling like she should - normally the throttle cable should have some play (1-2mm) in the closed position while idling. But with this setup i cant get the bike idling. So I pretensioned the cable more to get it idling at 1200 rpm but when i now drive the bike and close the throttle full bevore stopping and on corners the engine stalls. So i was thinking the problem might be the setup of the TPS (throttle-position-sensor). For this problem / setup I found the following Link:

MV Agusta FAQ: Tuning 1) Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) setup

which says for my F4 1000 R (2007) the following readings:
  • throttle plates fully closed 150 mV (not in idling position)
  • idling position 374 - 393 mV ( 2,1° - 2,3° opened throttle plates from fully closed)
  • full opened 4,85 V

and there i had the first problem - my TPS is a fixed version which is not adjustable on the mounting screws

Image


and it gives me actual a reading of:
  • fully closed 345 mV
  • idling position old/untill today 406 mV
  • full opened 3,94 V

Image


because the TPS is not movable (only by the little air in the wholes from 325 - 345 mV) i tried to setup the idling position by the 2,2° opened throttle plates. The plates have a diameter of 46mm so i calculated the following positions of the throttle plates from fully closed position:
  • 2,1° = 0,84 mm
  • 2,2° = 0,88 mm
  • 2,3° = 0,92 mm

after that i used my caliper gauge to set the idling position which gave me a reading of:
  • 2,1° = 435 mV
  • 2,2° = 440 mV
  • 2,3° = 445 mV

So i set up the idling position to 440 mV and the bike started but also was running very rich with the 1,5 turns opend bypass screws on the carbs (like suggested) and not idling - still stalling.
So my next step will be to synchronize the carbs if needed.

Has anybody an idea if this setup can be correct ? Or did i something wrong ?

Thanks for your help - best regards Marcel
 
#2 ·
Your bike has a 5SM ECU. The TPS is set using the diagnostic software.
The information in the FAQ is for the old 16M ECU where the TPS is set manually.
You should first properly synchronize your throttle bodies, then use the air screws to achieve correct idle speed. Without the diag software you will just have to hope the TPS is close.
If you cannot get proper idle speed using the air screws I would suggest using the throttle stop screw. This screw has the yellow "do not touch" paint, but a small adjustment may be needed. I had to do this on my 910R even though I have and use the software to set TPS.
 
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#4 ·
Is this diagnostic software available for download somewhere or is this a tool only available for dealers?
 
#5 ·
TechnoResearch sold a product called Centurion which was the VDSTS software and communication cord (dongle) for the MV 5SM. They also had diag software for other bikes with Marelli ECUs including Harley Davidson.
Not sure it is still available, I think they only make current HD stuff now.
Same basic software the dealers used.
There is a member here from France (I believe) who found some other 5SM diag software that allowed remapping if you were tech savy enough to do it. A little search on the forum should find him.
I would loan you mine, but shipping to and from Europe would be pricey. Someone closer to you can probably help.
Also search for it on Ducati forums...or just Google.


 
#6 ·

I have the VDSTS setup, and also added the JPDiag package as a backup once Technoresearch stopped supply and support for anything non-Harley Davidson.
I now find that the VDSTS is flaky after I did an update to the Windows 7 version. It disconnects constantly. I now only use it for throttle body balance as per the workshop manual. It was originally designed and sold for use with windows xp.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Guzzi Diag doesn't have the 5sm ECU as a option. JP Diag does so that's your best bet. The free version works well for checking and resetting the Tps. The cables I use are a VAG KKL to USB cable and a Fiat adapter cable that goes from OBD2 to 3 pin super seal. That cable also has the positive and negative connections that are needed. You can use the bikes battery or any other 12V source that's not connected to the bike. Make very sure you don't get those mixed up. JP Diag allows you to do a cable check before you plug it into the bike. Get it wrong and you ECU gets damaged. Pictures of the cables attached.
Image

Once you have downloaded the software you need a licence to use it. JP will email you a free one but it could take a few days. The guy is doing this by himself and isn't always available. It's not the most user friendly platform and takes a while to understand. Well at least it took me a while but once you have it up and running it's pretty good and does the job. For a more comprehensive version you have to pay €100.00. Functions for the 5SM ECU are quite limited ( fan on temperature for example is still under debugging )so probably not worth spending the money on.
 
#8 ·
Good afternoon. I sent a request for a detailed description of additional features and fuel maps several times. Considered purchasing an extended license, but did not receive a response. Here is his mail - jp.l@hotmail.fr
NICK jpl250rs.
Can someone tell me who to contact with this issue, both for acquisition and for discussion.
 
#9 ·
Good afternoon. I sent a request for a detailed description of additional features and fuel maps several times. Considered purchasing an extended license, but did not receive a response. Here is his mail - jp.l@hotmail.fr
NICK jpl250rs.
Can someone tell me who to contact with this issue, both for acquisition and for discussion.
I don't think he'll respond to that. Go on the JP diag forum and see what you can find. I'm not aware of any ready made maps. JP diag is a tool which, at least for some ECUs,
is very powerful.
Unless you're well versed in mapping engines or you want to seriously learn about it, stick with the free version and use it for simple diagnostics, TPS etc.
 
#11 ·
JP is more likely to respond if you use the forum page from his website. I don't know him personally but having dealt with him a few times it seems to me he's created a monster that is now difficult to control. There's just too many requests for him to deal with.
 
#14 ·
I think i will try this IAW diag for checking the TPS Sensor once again. At the moment i increased the idle a little by screwing in the idle screw which gives my slightly more opening angle for the throttle plates (it wasn´t much - 1/8 turn or so). I think instead of 2,2° the plates now have 2,5° or so, but the bike was so idling with 1150-1200 rpm , running and drivable. It only stalled once again one day later when i startet and shiftet from first to second - i think that was because the engine wasn`t on working temperatur (only 50°C when i startet riding). After that second test i syncroniszed once again the carbs (but there was no big difference in idling) i couldnt test it because of work so i will do that on the next weekend.
 
#19 ·
IAWdiag, Guzzidiag and JPDiag all come from the same originator. My understanding is that IAWdiag was an earlier version of JPDiag.
I can verify that JPDiag does work on the MV Agusta 5SM motorcycles, as I actually use it.
All of them require the same cable type, which I listed earlier In this thread.

As I am not knowledgeable enough to alter or write my own maps, I have not bothered to look at the Tunerpro software that the same originator developed.