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Discussion Starter #1
There was a thread on another forum about the "Sexiest sportbike ever made" I of course added my $.02 about the MV and here's one response...

Me: Sorry guys, I'm biased but theres a reason they haven't changed the styling of the MV....why mess with perfection?

Him: I don't think "perfection" is the reason they haven't messed with it. I think it has a little more to do with no free capital, income to debt not strong, always going bankrupt, new holding company every fiscal year etc.....

But what do I know?

Me: Obviously you didn't take into account the Ducati 916 996 series, they kept the styling around a long while before they changed it and that body style is still on the top of people's list....the same designer designed the MV F4 series...Now are you gonna tell me Ducati had financial troubles too?

Him: Actually yes, I WILL tell you Ducati has had, and is having, financial troubles. And it is a fact that Ducati held out on the redesign of the 999 due to finances. Do your homework.

Me: My point is that manufacturers of high end vehicles (bikes and cars) generally don't change the styling of their models often to keep the value up. In some cases it works (like with bikes and some exotic cars) and in some cases it doesn't. Now I'm patiently waiting for your analysis of the financial statements of all these other vehicle manufacturers as well to explain why they don't change the models as often, oh well..... did we forget that I said I was "biased" in my first thread? In the end its all a matter of opinion, I just stated mine. No hard feelings or anything by the way....its nice to have actual ideas being tossed around or argued in this place for once.

Him: No harm no foul Mv 2 NV. I was hoping you wouldn't take this personally lol. It's just people expressing thoughts. I actually think the MV is a hot ride myself.... Congrats on having one!

The MIC data that I get every month for my reports doesn't even break down Ducati, Triumph or other off-marqee machines because their total sales are so small compared to Japanese product. It's good to hit a home run on styling (like MV did) but when you compare specs, the exotics fall off after a model year because they can't afford the development like the Japanese can. So they evolve rather than explode with a new model. They almost have no choice but to stay with styling. Take Ducati, the largest of the non-Japanese in sportbikes. They posted a $41.5 million dollar LOSS last fiscal year compared to 2004. The 999 platform is not setting the world on fire in terms of performance or styling but the company can't afford a redesign. You were dead-on with you comment of holding value though: Ducati sends out a training manual to all of their dealers that states the reason they go with solid colors and limited styling changes is so as to not devalue the previous year bikes. It would be nice if the Japanese would take a hint from that but then no one would buy new and I would be out of a job.

I hope I didn't offend ya whan I posted about MV and fiscals (how did we get here anyways???), but type can be misleading in reference to tone. It's a beautiful bike. Period.


Is this the reason they don't change model styling (besides special edition colors) as often as Japanese Manufacturers?
 

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actually, you can go bust on "HIM" for not doing his homework. that guy is a frigging asshole for suggesting that you didn't do your 'homework'.

superbikeplanet.com has a VERY recent interview with the CEO of Ducati, Federico Minoli, where he admitted that Ducati "declared the death of the 998 TOO EARLY". the reason why ducati held out on the design of the 998 was that it WAS STILL SELLING WELL.

why would Ducati make such an admission. well, the 999 is NOT a popular bike. sales for that thing are way down. the 998 was a popular bike, and it probably had a few more years in it. hell, just look at the monster. or, the porsche 911 for that matter!

personally, i think ducati has some rought times ahead. their styling is not doing it. the only bike i like is the monster. the rest look like crap (IMHO).

mv, on the other hand, has AWESOME styling. and i belive that the future for MV is very bright. my only concern is if they are manufacturing these wonderful machines profitably. just looking at the hardware, it's hard for me to see how that can be done. every single component on the bike is top-shelf. right down to the simplest electrical connector and wire harness strap! as an owner, it's awesome. but as an engineer, i have to wonder how you can pull it off.
 

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altoon said:
personally, i think ducati has some rought times ahead. their styling is not doing it.
mv, on the other hand, has AWESOME styling. and i belive that the future for MV is very bright. my only concern is if they manufacturing these wonderful machines profitably. just looking at the hardware, it's hard for me to see how that can be done. every single component on the bike is top-shelf. right down to the simplest electrical connector and wire harness strap! as an owner, it's awesome. but as an engineer, i have to wonder how you can pull it off.
I couldnt have said it better myself.
 

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Tamburini has stated he is a fan of slow evolution rather than glitz and glamour revolution. Come up with a masterstroke and run with it.

Lack of capitol does not explain lack of a 'revolutionary' new model, I guess of the F4. Let's look at their financial positions relative to model developments. Just following their worst financial position with the failed Piaggio merger they released the Brutale 750. During Proton's failing domestic market support the released the 1000. They updated to the 1000's new arrangement; EBS, Tamburini's TSS. Just prior to the selloff they upgraded the ECU and electrics coming up with the new GP ECU bikes.

We are looking at MV's philosophy bearing fruit.

There is some complaint about all the 'specials' but truth be told they are selling. Maybe the worst example of this was the SPR, priced above the 1000 and released only months before the latter, being 'only' a 750.

Comparing current post-TPG Ducati with they heydey of the 998 superbikes is not apples to apples IMO. They were successful then and were special. I think we can all agree that the 'update' to Ducati's business post 999 was not as marked as the update in the design of their superbikes :rolleyes:
 

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the other aspect of a ducati - mv comparison is racing.

ducati is in motogp, wsbk, and ama superbike. motogp is the biggest drain on the bottom line. it's a HUGE drain on capital. if ducati cut their motogp support, they would have had a much better fiscal result.

mv, on the other hand, does not have a factory racing effort. as a big race fan, i know i want to see mv in there mixing it up, but they should only do it if it does NOT compromise selling bikes. castiglioni has stated that he want's to see mv in wsbk in 2007. they should ONLY do that if the company is making money.

you race to sell bikes, you don't sell bikes to race. mv needs to be making money selling motorcycles, before it even makes a hint at going racing.

alex
 

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James is spot-on why they won't change the design anytime soon. Tamburini was not happy with the Ducati 999 change from the 916 design he again thought just as james said that it should have been improved upon. He was right, it now has hit Ducati's pocket books!

Ducati had insisted that the change was due in part because they wanted to continue to dominate world superbike and the 916, 996, 998 was becoming incresingly hard for the riders to handle and keep up with the newer four strokes.

I also remember reading this was just about the time they were developing the MotoGP bike and the cost of producing the 916 was greater than the 999. They were quite simply cutting dollars to put towards the MotoGP bike development. Or they were looking for somthing more economical to build either way it hurt them. It has got to be really hard to follow up a design like the 916.
 

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altoon said:
you race to sell bikes, you don't sell bikes to race. mv needs to be making money selling motorcycles, before it even makes a hint at going racing.

alex
Many, esp. Italian companies look at this in the reverse, and I'm not sure I dissagree.
Ferrari, for example, has always considered selling cars a necessary evil to fund racing. It was not long ago that Ducati had the same philosophy; but this is something that keeps vehicles like this 'exclusive'.
It is certainly the other way around for American and Japanese companies, where racing is considered no more than a powerful marketing tool (take NASCAR for example).
 

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Many, esp. Italian companies look at this in the reverse, and I'm not sure I dissagree.
Just look @ the Japanese, they sell well and race well. the fact of life is that you gotta have fun, gotta work, and also gotta eat too.

Imagine if one of the Japanese company will hire Tamburini (or buy out MV)and let him have the money, the total control and freedom to design a exclusive line of exotic super sportsbikes, and perhaps even supervise their overall designs? :stickpoke :stickpoke :stickpoke that would be something, no? just a fantasy.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
odonata said:
Just look @ the Japanese, they sell well and race well. the fact of life is that you gotta have fun, gotta work, and also gotta eat too.

Imagine if one of the Japanese company will hire Tamburini (or buy out MV)and let him have the money, the total control and freedom to design a exclusive line of exotic super sportsbikes, and perhaps even supervise their overall designs? :stickpoke :stickpoke :stickpoke that would be something, no? just a fantasy.
But maybe this would undermind the essence of what makes MV's so special...
 

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fazer6 said:
Many, esp. Italian companies look at this in the reverse, and I'm not sure I dissagree.
Ferrari, for example, has always considered selling cars a necessary evil to fund racing. It was not long ago that Ducati had the same philosophy; but this is something that keeps vehicles like this 'exclusive'.
It is certainly the other way around for American and Japanese companies, where racing is considered no more than a powerful marketing tool (take NASCAR for example).
Ferrari - yeah, that is one example where they sell cars to race. And it almost cost the company it's life. Only because of the deep pockets of Fiat is Ferrari able to go racing in F1.

Ferrari may find itself in a bit of a bind soon. There is speculation that Fiat wants to unload it's 56% stake in Ferrari to help payoff part of the massive debt that Fiat has. One possible strategy is to float Ferrari shares, and if that happens it's highly unlikely that Ferrari will be able to simply put all it's money into F1.

It's really really hard to just go racing. I think what MV is doing is the right idea. They need to make bikes people will by, keep innovating on products, and then if there is some money left over, MAYBE go racing.

Again, personally I want to see MV mix it up in WSB with the rest of them, but not if it's gonna risk the financial health of the company.
 

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one major benefit of involving in racing for a high performance motorcycle maker is that the technology developed for the race bike eventually gets passed down to the production model, but then again, it's expensive to race.

I would love to be able to see MVs in WSB or any pro circuit, but I doubt it will happen in the near future... with the condition of the world economy in the past 5 years, I am just grateful that they are still around.
 

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outtadaloop said:
But maybe this would undermind the essence of what makes MV's so special...
sure it's a possibility, there has been many of large auto maker owning little exotic car makers, some doing well some badly... anyway, this is just a fantasy anyway, I am sure there are just too many problems & difficulties for that to happen.

I am just grateful that MV is still around.
 

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I read once that Tamburini said that a motorcycle should be born beautiful then evolve, not false revolution every new model. So it makes me wonder whether even with a much healthier piggy bank and deeper pockets would his views and ultimately his designs change that much more dramatically. Or change more often, in my humble opinion I doubt that thought.

In my opinion, generally companies that manufacture exclusive, desire driven vehicles will tend to struggle in most part of their lives. I think its the nature of the beast, but that doesn't mean that their product is any worse than those produced by companies with a stronger bottomline. I'm glad companies like MV, Ducati, Ferrari etc still produce the vehicles that they do as it allows us to veer away from the mundane. I'd hate to imagine a life without no compromise machines as such and the only form of transport for me was looking down the barrel of a people mover.

These are just my simple thoughts.

Cheers
 

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milk&juice said:
I read once that Tamburini said that a motorcycle should be born beautiful then evolve, not false revolution every new model. So it makes me wonder whether even with a much healthier piggy bank and deeper pockets would his views and ultimately his designs change that much more dramatically. Or change more often, in my humble opinion I doubt that thought.

In my opinion, generally companies that manufacture exclusive, desire driven vehicles will tend to struggle in most part of their lives. I think its the nature of the beast, but that doesn't mean that their product is any worse than those produced by companies with a stronger bottomline. I'm glad companies like MV, Ducati, Ferrari etc still produce the vehicles that they do as it allows us to veer away from the mundane. I'd hate to imagine a life without no compromise machines as such and the only form of transport for me was looking down the barrel of a people mover.

These are just my simple thoughts.

Cheers

I whole heartedly agree. :)
 

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milk&juice said:
In my opinion, generally companies that manufacture exclusive, desire driven vehicles will tend to struggle in most part of their lives.
Agree for the most part but look to Porsche. Still maintain the highest margin on production vehicles and continue to produce (mostly) deireable production cars yet still find themselves able to race. They have changed over the years but just about the ideal on all of our points here. We can hope MV is able to attain a similar position.

I also think MV know their priority now is production. They rightfully pulled the multiple race entries for 2006 and hope they are well enough this year to race in 2007. Everyone go out and buy an MV!!!!!!! Especially the owner of this forum, vote to ban if deadline not met :laughing: :loser: :laughing:
 

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JamesC said:
Agree for the most part but look to Porsche. Still maintain the highest margin on production vehicles and continue to produce (mostly) deireable production cars yet still find themselves able to race. They have changed over the years but just about the ideal on all of our points here. We can hope MV is able to attain a similar position.

I also think MV know their priority now is production. They rightfully pulled the multiple race entries for 2006 and hope they are well enough this year to race in 2007. Everyone go out and buy an MV!!!!!!! Especially the owner of this forum, vote to ban if deadline not met :laughing: :loser: :laughing:
hmmm, Japan and Germany, they are still winning the world wars. :stickpoke :stickpoke :stickpoke
 

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I also thought that Porsche were looking quite in the red until they brought out the Boxster then found second wind with the shared Cayenne/Tourareg/Q7 but these are just based on my ramblings with people in the industry not based on facts. :)

But talking of Porsche now there is a company that believes in evolving ones products.

I just hope that when MV decides to return they make a splash not a flop! But a little part of me doesn't really quite care and would be quite content just to see them race, maybe we might get some nice goodies developed for our bikes in years to come. :smoking: :smoking:
 

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milk&juice said:
I also thought that Porsche were looking quite in the red until they brought out the Boxster then found second wind with the shared Cayenne/Tourareg/Q7 but these are just based on my ramblings with people in the industry not based on facts. :)

But talking of Porsche now there is a company that believes in evolving ones products.

I just hope that when MV decides to return they make a splash not a flop! But a little part of me doesn't really quite care and would be quite content just to see them race, maybe we might get some nice goodies developed for our bikes in years to come. :smoking: :smoking:
BTW, nice bike... How do you like your race body? that's their black fiberglass kit right?
 
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