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Discussion Starter #1
This is kind of a difficult question to answer, but it's really the "million dollar" (or pound, or euro, or whatever) question:

Where is the next Stoner? What series is he in? What reasons do you have?

I think this is a very important question that the MotoGP paddock needs to ask and answer, because for many years people deified Rossi as if he was unique among racers. My assertion is, maybe he isn't...

I don't want to take anything away from him, he's still probably in the top 5 or so best riders ever in the history of racing. Stoner is not... yet.

Stoner had a relatively uneventful upbringing in 125 and 250 gp. He was good, but not spectacular. I think many people, including me, had serious question marks when he was put on the LCR Honda last year. And he proved us all wrong.

So, there must be someone else out there who can do the same right? Who is it? If you think there isn't, give reasons.

Here are some possibilities I came up with:

o I think John Hopkins is better than people give him credit for. I think putting him on a Honda or Ducati would prove this.

o Johnny Rea. If a kid his age can control a bike with the power it has, he's going somewhere. He's not exactly setting the world on fire with his results, but they are good. He's as smart on the bike as anyone, as far as I can tell. He's one of the ones who I think needs to be given a fair shot on a MotoGP bike, and it's up to him to prove he's capable.

o Kenan Sofuoglu. His rise has been incredible. He's beating some seriously talented riders. He deserves a shot.

o I'd love to see Bayliss replace Capirossi, but it will never happen.

250 GP is an obvious choice because that's where Stoner came from, former 250 riders seem to be doing fairly well (but that's not a golden rule in my opinion), and those guys know all the tracks. I haven't been following it closely this year, but what I see is a bunch of guys riding with their emotions rather than their brains. But then again, Melandri was one of those (he tried to kill Emilio Alzamora back in his 125 days, or that's what it looked like to me). So is Elias. But neither of them are in the same league as Stoner I think. Stoner never struck me as an emotional rider. I'll have to take a close look before I name any 250 GP riders.

Another possibly related point: Who ever thought Garry McCoy would win 500cc races based on his history? He came straight from 125 GP. Food for thought...
 

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If rumors are true...maybe Ben Spies-battling with Mat Mladin has proven his
game. Having Schwantz as a mentor & if Suzuki keeps improving...
Yes I agree Hopkins is a great racer-I would love to see him(and Colin Edwards) final get a win. I did not expect Stoner to be such a force this year-yes he had some strong rides last season but I was thinking/hoping it would be Lori doing the winning. Garry McCoy was fantastic to watch-I believe his father raced speedway bikes/I'm sure that was part of style-shame his injuries & the end of 2 strokes hurt his career. Lots of great 250 riders-Rossi, Max etc-I remember when Rossi started 500s people felt he would get hurt or hurt his career-who knows??? I think Rossi maybe the greatest in my opinion-125,250,500 & 4 strokes-AMAZING.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
mlawless said:
If rumors are true...maybe Ben Spies-battling with Mat Mladin has proven his
game. Having Schwantz as a mentor & if Suzuki keeps improving...
Yes I agree Hopkins is a great racer-I would love to see him(and Colin Edwards) final get a win. I did not expect Stoner to be such a force this year-yes he had some strong rides last season but I was thinking/hoping it would be Lori doing the winning. Garry McCoy was fantastic to watch-I believe his father raced speedway bikes/I'm sure that was part of style-shame his injuries & the end of 2 strokes hurt his career. Lots of great 250 riders-Rossi, Max etc-I remember when Rossi started 500s people felt he would get hurt or hurt his career-who knows??? I think Rossi maybe the greatest in my opinion-125,250,500 & 4 strokes-AMAZING.
Spies is sort of a dark horse on my list. He's said in the past that he doesn't like flying, and that he's fine to run the AMA superbike championship for many years to come. That's not the attitude of a modern world champion. Not saying he can't do it, but I think he has some demons to overcome. I do consider him and Mladin to be among the best superbike racers in the world.

Another american that I think deserves bigger things than he gets is Josh Hayes. I think, given time, he could do a really good job with a top level superbike ride, and I think he could turn heads in MotoGP as well. He's got bike control that you don't see in everyone. He can go fast on anything you give him.
 

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There is a young Aussie guy in World Superbikes. Josh Brookes. I f he gets a go watch out. He cleaned up everyhtinhg down here and is totally focussed. His ride / team just imploded, he needs a break at world level.

By the way with Casey, you may not be aware his parents sold there family home in rural Cessnock and left for Europe to race at age 15. Here you need to be 18 to race at that level. They had nothing, no money and lived out of cravans etc, it is truly an inspiring story.
Vermeullan, West, Stoner, Bayliss, Corser, Parkes, Brookes etc etc all come from similar backgrounds, being young MX and dirt track racers and all live in rural areas of Australia where they ride on large properties at very very early ages.
 

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Even though he comes accross as a tool and nobody in the paddock can stand him Jorge Lorenzo will make a splash in GP. 19 years old and probably going to take his second straight 250 title. The Turkish rider in supersport has some serious talent as well. I think that most of the next wave will be coming up through the ranks of 125 and 250's though. Occasionally a Spies or Toseland will be given a shot but I think it will be rare.
 

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Down under we bread racer like rabbits, They race on small budgets so to get the best out of the bike they have to be the best thing on them, Especially since the racing does not have the high profile it deserves
Cheers
 

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acruhl said:
Stoner had a relatively uneventful upbringing in 125 and 250 gp. He was good, but not spectacular. I think many people, including me, had serious question marks when he was put on the LCR Honda last year. And he proved us all wrong.
I think. Stoner never struck me as an emotional rider. I'll have to take a close look before I name any 250 GP riders.
...

You obviously haven't watched Casey's career as closely as us patriotic Aussies :) ....uneventful upbringing ???
I told you 4 years ago that this kid will be kicking ass eventually...

He doesn't have to suck on chuppa chups or get wankers to play guitars next to him to be noticed..........he just wins races.

Love what Checa is doing on the LCR Honda this year...what a legend. Just makes Casey's efforts last year even more outstanding.

Try telling Capirossi the reason Casey is winning is just the bike :jerkoff:
There's rumours Dovizioso will partener Stoner next year.
 

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I want it known that I called it before you Pete! :)

Stoner......Hamilton. WTF! Todays youth has no respect.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
What was so remarkable about Stoner's 125 and 250 days? I probably don't have the best memory (in fact, I guarantee it), but I seem to recall him not standing out from his peers that much. He didn't win a 125 title. He didn't win the 250 title. So what was he on the 250? He's not Poggiali. He's not Pedrosa. He's not Lorenzo, Biaggi, Melandri, Capirossi, Jacque, Kato... It goes on and on. And where are any of these guys today on a MotoGP bike? Nowhere compared to Stoner. Kato didn't have a chance, so I probably should have left him out. So, what's so remarkable about Stoner on a 250 or 125?

The point I'm trying to make is, obviously a good performance on a 250 isn't everything. Or a 125. Somehow, Stoner came from the smaller bikes, which is supposedly where you're supposed to come from if you want to go fast on an 800 (which I might argue is crap), and he suddenly blossoms on the big bikes. He's threatening to be one of the bigger names there ever was.

So, is he unique then? It seems unlikely, but it's possible.

Maybe the entire GP paddock doesn't really know how to choose it's riders? Stoner seems to be an exception rather than the rule.

My arguement is, Stoner is proof positive that you don't have to be a spectacular rider on a 125 or 250 to be good on a MotoGP bike. Right? Because surely One of the multitude of 250cc GP champions in the field should be winning too right? Rossi's the only one.

I think it's entirely possible that the next big name won't even come from the GP paddock.

Guys, I'm not saying I don't like Stoner. I'm just arguing that there may be another one out there. Maybe it's even an Aussie.

(Pete, Checa is an interesting study. I think he's easy to hate. But the fact is, nobody is setting the world on fire on Hondas this year, and he's not doing that much worse than anyone else considering his qualifying performance in France. Where is Nakano? He was doing better on the supposedly POS Kawasaki from last year! It's not only Checa.)
 

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acruhl said:
What was so remarkable about Stoner's 125 and 250 days? I probably don't have the best memory (in fact, I guarantee it), but I seem to recall him not standing out from his peers that much. He didn't win a 125 title. He didn't win the 250 title. So what was he on the 250? He's not Poggiali. He's not Pedrosa. He's not Lorenzo, Biaggi, Melandri, Capirossi, Jacque, Kato... It goes on and on. And where are any of these guys today on a MotoGP bike? Nowhere compared to Stoner. Kato didn't have a chance, so I probably should have left him out. So, what's so remarkable about Stoner on a 250 or 125?
Nothing really remarkable, he never really had the best bike....but it was plain to see that he was a standout along with Pedrosa...and they would both go to MotoGP ASAP....
He challenged for the title and won races on the LCR 250 Aprilia.......supposely not a full factory Aprilia....he made the full factory Aprilias look second rate.
The only person that beat him consistantly in his last year was Pedrosa on the full factory Honda 250...

All the riders you mentioned won their title/s on full factory bikes...
 

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Maybe it's because I'm an Aussie but I agree that Casey has always showed great potential...but I also think it's possible for riders to suddenly blossom also.

I have seen it in musicians where young players have talent but don't seem to really appear that they will ever become more than average then you see them a little later and they have become phenominal...and vice versa with players that promise so much and yet never deliver.

I also believe that like musical world where the standard among the general population has increased dramatically over the past decade that the same thing is happening with motorcycling and we are just starting to see that next wave/level...I have no doubt there is a number of Casey Stoners out there...but as the question asks where is the next one.
 

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Maybe the overall standard has improved because the bikes are getting easier to ride? Consistent tyres, traction control, etc. Let's put them all back on the mid-nineties, wild stallion, GP 500s and see how they all fair...!

Si
 

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TheCatWhisperer said:
Maybe the overall standard has improved because the bikes are getting easier to ride? Consistent tyres, traction control, etc. Let's put them all back on the mid-nineties, wild stallion, GP 500s and see how they all fair...!

Si
That would be fun to see :yo: ...but I think it's more than that...in gereral I'd say in the last decade the riders spend more hours riding/practicing/testing and get more feedback on their riding.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
What needs to happen is that companies need to stop worrying so much about product awareness and all the other marketing bullshit, and get people on bikes so that the fans can actually see the fastest riders out there.

Let's say Suzuki wants to find another rider. So fine, put other Suzuki riders on the bikes, but also get riders from anywhere who ride anything on the bikes. Contracts that prevent this suck, and hurt the sport.

So that was a rant that I guess was sort of related.
 
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