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I have some questions regarding Traction Control (B3 800):

- When exactly does it do something, and what does it do?
- What sensors does it use?
- How does Traction Control relate to Rain Mode? Are these two things doing something similar? I feel that the engine responds more softly when in Rain Mode as opposed to Sports Mode
- Can I accelerate faster if I switch off Traction Control?
- Is there any good reason for switching Traction Control off?
 

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- When exactly does it do something, and what does it do?

Traction Control cuts in when loss of traction is detected. The TC cuts power only until traction is re-established.

- What sensors does it use?

There is an ABS type disc and sensor affixed to the rear axle.

- How does Traction Control relate to Rain Mode?

TC relates to Rain Mode only in so far as it reduces power.

-Are these two things doing something similar? I feel that the engine responds more softly when in Rain Mode as opposed to Sports Mode

Yes, power is reduced across the full rev range in Rain Mode giving that “soft” feeling. However, with TC it only reduces power when the level of traction loss for a given setting is exceeded.

- Can I accelerate faster if I switch off Traction Control?

If you have 100% traction available then it will not make any difference to the bikes ability to accelerate on or off.

- Is there any good reason for switching Traction Control off?

Those riders who use wheel spin to effect directional changes will need to turn it off. Most will run with it at a very low setting so as to only step in during extreme wheel spin.
 

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Anyone know how the MV system measures when to come in without using a front wheel sensor? Like what is it basing the rear wheel speed off of?

Edit: Ignore this post. The article answers my question.
 

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So did the 2012 F4 not have a rear wheel sensor to back up the info the ECU gets from the crank? There is no mention of one in the article but the B3/F3's do have one and it's my understanding that that is how it works? Hopefully doing a better job too? :laughing:
 

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Gents there are no sensors fitted to the B3 that operate the TC. The way the TC works on these bikes is triggered by the rise in revs, the ECU detects a sudden increase over and above that which the engine power can deliver, when it detects this spike in revs it cuts the power until the revs settle to a normal engine related speed curve. It is a completely different approach to that used in other systems. Only the ABS fitted bikes have wheel speed sensors but these are dedicated to the ABS, not TC.
 

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does anyhow know that the TC is working properly,
evectively checked out on the road?
there is now signe on the desk when its working i think
 

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The dash does show if the TC is on and at what of the available eight settings is selected. I ride my bike in N normal mode for commuting and S sport mode when riding the back roads. I leave the TC at setting 2.

In rain mode the bike automatically selects TC setting eight which is the maximum.

I have had the TC cut in only a few times during riding, feels pretty crude and just seems to dip the power momentarily.

To test if it is working safely I ride my bike on a country road which has a number of small hump back bridges, this allows me to get the bike off the ground whilst upright. I keep the throttle steady and the TC cuts in when the bike goes light and the revs dip, so it does work.

I certainly don't rely on it to save my ass, over 40 years of riding has taught me to use my instincts not the gadgets.
 

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Jimbo youre wrong the b3/f3 without abs all got the sensor ring on the backwheel! so b3 and f3 measure speed on the backwheel and gearsprocket (dont know the right word in english)

I tested the tc on gravel and straigt bumpy roads and it cuts off the power! In turns on highest setting you can pull hard on the gas in mid turn (apex)and the bike wont accelerate!
 

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whp,

Sorry, no your wrong, I am right. Go look at your B3, my non 2013 ABS B3 has a ring on the rear wheel, however there is no sensor anywhere, it is a simple case of fitted for but not with a sensor. Later build models were built with ABS, MV just tooled up in advance when the early B3's were manufactured.
 

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:popcorn:
 

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My 2014 Dragster has a sensor in the front and back wheel
I will try today on a gravel road to see what happend!
 

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My 2014 Dragster has a sensor in the front and back wheel
I will try today on a gravel road to see what happend!

Yes a 2014 bike will have sensors front and rear, they are for the ABS.
 

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The F3/B3 don't have a light that flashes when the TC is working right?

I've noticed with every fuel map update, the TC seems to become more intrusive. Wonder if its just me...
 

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whp,

Sorry, no your wrong, I am right. Go look at your B3, my non 2013 ABS B3 has a ring on the rear wheel, however there is no sensor anywhere, it is a simple case of fitted for but not with a sensor. Later build models were built with ABS, MV just tooled up in advance when the early B3's were manufactured.

So why is there a wire going to it then Jim? Just checked my 2013 non ABS bike and the ring is there with a wire going to what I presume is a sensor between the ring and the swing arm, can't see for sure, it's a bit tight for space and it's getting dark? It could be used for something else I guess but what? And with the cost cutting that was made elsewhere on the Brutale, cable routing, poor welds, skipped tank lacquer, cheap suspension, I struggle to see why they would spend the extra to partially fit dormant ABS to just the back wheel just to make it future proof?
 

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Because I am slightly paranoid about MV and the rear hub fail issue I have pulled my bike apart a couple of times, there is no sensor fitted.

Last time I pulled it apart I fitted one of these:
 

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Traction stuff

I can't comment on the Eldor stuff as I've not been inside that yet but the system used on the last edition brutales that used the 5SM ECU and then the 2010-2012 F4 used rate of change between engine rpm and wheel speed. Based upon the speed sensor on the front sprocket.

This isn't detecting spikes as such in terms of traction loss but an acceleration rate over a fixed period in time, usually 1 sec.

Through the Microtec I have 6 trigger points per gear for fuel and then the same again for ignition. Those trigger points can be set at anything but they determine the amount of differential in wheel speed is allowed before a strategy is activated.

Say for e.g. That a trigger is set at 7000 rpm. That means the ECU needs to see an acceleration rate in engine revs of 7krpm in 1 second. However it doesn't need to see that for the entire second because 7krpm over a second is pretty much only going to result in a trip to the nearest A&E. But when you break that 7krpm down in to milliseconds you get a more realistic figure. So 40ms of slip now equals a 280 rpm change and something that we would feel as the beginning of a severe bit of wheel spin and possibly would begin the process of a crapping oneself.

Dependant upon gear, throttle position and rpm will determine what correction is applied, then the setting through the dash will decide what percentage of that correction for fuel and ignition you actually get.

There are several hundred potential correction tables to be activated and used for any given traction strategy. Traction maps are way more sophisticated than just a simple set of commands amounting to when wheel spins too much reduce power and save high side whilst rider keeps throttle pinned safe in the knowledge of not crashing. Although I think we all wish they were that simple and effective, LOL.

:)
 

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My 2014 Dragster has a sensor in the front and back wheel
I will try today on a gravel road to see what happend!
You can try this a lot safer mate, no risk needed
- Place the bike on the rear wheel stand.
- Start up
- First or second gear
- Rev hard, play with the throttle hard, open close.

You'll notice the TC will cut in.
Take a close look at the dash while TC cuts in and you'll see the TC sign and the 8 dotted ring around the TC sign flashing for a couple of seconds.

X81: nice explanation my friend !
 

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It's a Bazzaz like TC ont the F3, 8 curves for each TC position, actuated if the revs go higher during accelerations, no lean angle (it's the race CPU therefore).

The crank revs prime to the wheel spin , it's more precise (not the effects of the suspensions)
The rain map is the worse curve , then it cuts a lot.
Until 3, the TC helps for safe ride, below , it's more free to slide, on bumps, it's better to set to 0 during races.
 
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