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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
2014 F3 800 - 25,000 miles

Wanted to share the journey from valve failure to repaired. In my case on Aug 10, 2018 after an hour long ride of technical twisties the horrible sound of broken valve starts during my return home. Was idling at a light. Light turns green.... 2,000 rpm .... valve hits piston. Bike keeps running. Only 2 minutes from home. Ride home keeping rpm very low. Deal with it later!!

Eventually have the courage to have a look. Remove tank and air box cover. Can see right into the throttle body and confirm that one intake valve is broken.

Wanted to share the journey of dissasembly , repair and all that might go along with that.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Make calls and see what my options are. It's Aug and Italy is closed. Nearest dealerships are 7 hours away. I'm outside of warranty given it's a 2014 with 25,000 miles. Good will warranty not likely. Looks like I'm doing the work myself outside of the head repair which is beyond my scope.

So, with the help of the amazing resource I'm in contact with ( some of you know and if not PM me) the work begins!!! I assumed the engine could drop out of the chassis but this bike is a little different. The bike is disassemble in three sections... front end with tubular frame , engine and rear section.

So, with a weekend of work I get to this:
 

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I would look at if the 2018 valve springs, valve guides and new cams (less lift , longer duration) can fit in your cylinder head.

Ive sent an email to MV (looks like the factory has opened as they replied) and they said ask the dealer. I ask the dealer and I get a idiot response so will be asking evolutionbike.it to ask the factory on my behalf.

I know the 2018 675 F3 has a single spring and the 800 dual springs.

Check this video

https://www.facebook.com/poweredbytuanossen/videos/2225394981014879/
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yes, the big one is to use the new intake cam. I'm not sure how I'm going to source one but I've got my eyes/ears open. I'll post more pics when I have time but there is an improved valve guide available from the same place doing my head. They have a few options for race springs as well. The new F3 800 uses the same dual spring as the F4 according to sources.



I would look at if the 2018 valve springs, valve guides and new cams (less lift , longer duration) can fit in your cylinder head.

Ive sent an email to MV (looks like the factory has opened as they replied) and they said ask the dealer. I ask the dealer and I get a idiot response so will be asking evolutionbike.it to ask the factory on my behalf.

I know the 2018 675 F3 has a single spring and the 800 dual springs.

Check this video

https://www.facebook.com/poweredbytuanossen/videos/2225394981014879/
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Pics with updated guide
 

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I would look at if the 2018 valve springs, valve guides and new cams (less lift , longer duration) can fit in your cylinder head.

Ive sent an email to MV (looks like the factory has opened as they replied) and they said ask the dealer. I ask the dealer and I get a idiot response so will be asking evolutionbike.it to ask the factory on my behalf.

I know the 2018 675 F3 has a single spring and the 800 dual springs.

Check this video

https://www.facebook.com/poweredbytuanossen/videos/2225394981014879/
Interesting video.
 

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Going to love to hear about your head after it is finished.. will there be any modifications to the cylinder head or chambers?
 

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I would port, polish and match the head with exhaust. Then decat the stock headers and replace the air filter ?

Lots of credit to you and all the work you are doing. I hope I will not have to go down this road one day...

Going to love to hear about your head after it is finished.. will there be any modifications to the cylinder head or chambers?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
According to my source doing head work:

The 2018 cam will fit the earlier bikes. It solves most of the reliability problems. Your engine now has significantly longer intake guides to stabilize the valve. 2017 and up have improved intake valves but they are very expensive. Just updating the guide and camshaft significantly improved reliability in the race motors I have been building

So, my head is repaired and upgraded with longer intake guides. If I can get the newest revision of intake cam then I'll basically cover most of the problems seen with previous head.

This is just like screwing in a lightbulb. Or maybe one million lightbulbs!!
 

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According to my source doing head work:

The 2018 cam will fit the earlier bikes. It solves most of the reliability problems. Your engine now has significantly longer intake guides to stabilize the valve. 2017 and up have improved intake valves but they are very expensive. Just updating the guide and camshaft significantly improved reliability in the race motors I have been building

So, my head is repaired and upgraded with longer intake guides. If I can get the newest revision of intake cam then I'll basically cover most of the problems seen with previous head.

This is just like screwing in a lightbulb. Or maybe one million lightbulbs!!
Replace your clutch basket with the latest updated part while you have the motor apart. Would seriously suck to break a basket after all the effort put in on the head.

Please share the parts and part numbers of any parts replaced.
 

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According to my source doing head work:

The 2018 cam will fit the earlier bikes. It solves most of the reliability problems. Your engine now has significantly longer intake guides to stabilize the valve. 2017 and up have improved intake valves but they are very expensive. Just updating the guide and camshaft significantly improved reliability in the race motors I have been building

So, my head is repaired and upgraded with longer intake guides. If I can get the newest revision of intake cam then I'll basically cover most of the problems seen with previous head.

This is just like screwing in a lightbulb. Or maybe one million lightbulbs!!
So

If you broke an exhaust valve then the spring and or guide are probably the cause.

If you broke an intake valve then the cam, spring and or guide are the cause.

I wonder how the new cam would change the characteristics of the motor?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Peak figures are the same but I'd love to see the dyno figures overlaid. People are saying the new bikes are refined. Lots of little changes. I think gearing changes as well leading to lower top speed but that's something easily given up for better reliability and track performance.

According to my source doing head work:

The 2018 cam will fit the earlier bikes. It solves most of the reliability problems. Your engine now has significantly longer intake guides to stabilize the valve. 2017 and up have improved intake valves but they are very expensive. Just updating the guide and camshaft significantly improved reliability in the race motors I have been building

So, my head is repaired and upgraded with longer intake guides. If I can get the newest revision of intake cam then I'll basically cover most of the problems seen with previous head.

This is just like screwing in a lightbulb. Or maybe one million lightbulbs!!
So

If you broke an exhaust valve then the spring and or guide are probably the cause.

If you broke an intake valve then the cam, spring and or guide are the cause.

I wonder how the new cam would change the characteristics of the motor?
 

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Peak figures are the same but I'd love to see the dyno figures overlaid. People are saying the new bikes are refined. Lots of little changes. I think gearing changes as well leading to lower top speed but that's something easily given up for better reliability and track performance.
Ask and you shall receive.


Sounds extremely smooth.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If you scroll down you will see a bunch of great tech-talk videos by Brian Gillen. Love all of them and the explanations of the changes. I am glad to see this vs the bike at its end of life. I hate that the F4 is taking a break... but for those that are patient this could be a huge game changer!



Here is Brian Gillen explaining the Euro 4 cylinder head changes (video):

https://www.facebook.com/poweredbytuanossen/videos/2225394981014879/?t=15

Sorry, only found it on FB.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Haven't had a chance to respond well to the posts here. Been posting pics from phone and mostly reading while at work or with guests at my house. I appreciate all the responses! I would love to make this a track bike and dedicated since the street riding thing is not that interesting. But, track only also means my budget will need evaluating. The old saying is "in order to win a million in racing, you have to spend 2 million"!!!!!


I think I have some updated version of the clutch basket. It doesn't look like a tin can but it also doesn't look like the one image I saw on the other dragster thread.



Maybe I'll be able to sell this and get into a 2018 version? Maybe an RC? and an F4RR??



I would port, polish and match the head with exhaust. Then decat the stock headers and replace the air filter ?

Lots of credit to you and all the work you are doing. I hope I will not have to go down this road one day...
Replace your clutch basket with the latest updated part while you have the motor apart. Would seriously suck to break a basket after all the effort put in on the head.

Please share the parts and part numbers of any parts replaced.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Head back with me along with replacement OEM piston and connecting rod. Great work and advice to go along with excellent communication!! During these times having this type of reassurance is priceless!!

The letters on the connecting rod indicate the weight and bore sizing. In my base A and Y. Replacements have same specs. Just for general knowledge I compared all my piston/rods... they are all 497 gms. This is my first engine rebuild level work so I'm trying to take time to learn some things and enjoy the process. Better safe than sorry and always try to enjoy it no matter how daunting it may appear.

Thought local shop could do my deglazing and bring the cross hatch back on my cylinders but the way the case is not 90 degrees and the opening is blind they said no. I'm not surprised. Hard to find expert level work where I live. So off the case goes to my trusted contact!!
 

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Thank you for bringing us with your journey on rebuilding.
For a rookie as me, its very interesting to see the inside of the F3 engine. Sadly bequase of the wrong reasons but the photos are nice to look at and to learn from.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
I'm not fully decided on if I would like to use the revised cam. First of all I can't find a source. Second, it will be expensive. Third and most interestingly I believe it will reduce the power and characteristic of the engine.


Technically it may produce the same peak power levels and dyno graphs but throttle response and other driveability may be reduced. This is based on intake cam theory. But in drive by wire you could actually get the same end result even with different hardware ie revised intake cam. The dyno showing the newest F3 800 seems a bit disappointing and it also is not comparing two stock bikes. The description of the previous bike throttle aggressiveness makes me believe it was running and old ECU revision as well.


My plan is to build bike back to stock and possibly replace the intake cam with a revised one later. Doing just the intake cam I believe can be done with engine in place and only a little extra work during a major servicing (valve cover removed) when I measure valve clearance.


What are your thoughts?



Did you manage to find out about the revised intake cam?
 
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