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Not enough Shims

Well, having taken the measurements PRIOR to Cam removal I came up with numerous valve clearances with the same measurement.


For the Intake the limits are .15-.29 most are right at .15 and some are at .13 even one at .11.


For the Exhaust the same story a few more than three are at .20 one at .15.


However you cannot calculate New Valve shims without removing the old ones. I should have realized that I would need new shims and then remove cams and old shims. Take measurements and THEN buy shims.


The HOTCAMS shim kit comes with only THREE of each. So now I have to order more 2.00 and 1.85 shims. I was thinking it would be better to replace all the ones that are at the lower end of the limit. That way I should not have to do this for another couple of years. Have had the bike 10 years now and only has 18,000 miles. I do ride gently.


So waiting on shims to come.


In the shop manual it says to Install cam chain, and then tighten down the stands. Rotating the crank as to tighten the ones that are not under pressure first. Does anyone have experience with this? I have read the descriptions of installing the cam chain and it looks daunting.
 

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Go visit your local Japanese motorcycle dealer and get the shims you need. They may even just swap with you (maybe)....

Install the intake cam at TDC #1 per manual, sequentially tighten the cam caps all the way down as per the manual, little by little, back and forth, but not to final torque. Take out the chain slack on the intake side and set the cam timing per the manual. Tie the chain to the cam so it can't slip.
Install the exhaust cam and time it to the intake with the pin count. Tie the chain to the cam. Install the cam caps and sequentially tighten them all the way down as per the manual, little by little, but not to final torque.
Install the cam chain tensioner and recheck cam timing. Untie the chain from the cams, rotate the engine a few revolutions and recheck the timing.

Everything still good? Now torque the cam caps to final value, rotating the cams to place the lobes up (no valve spring load) on the adjacent cap bolts you are torquing down.

OK...that's my method (one of them). Just read the manual and use your head.
 

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Go visit your local Japanese motorcycle dealer and get the shims you need. They may even just swap with you (maybe)....

Install the intake cam at TDC #1 per manual, sequentially tighten the cam caps all the way down as per the manual, little by little, back and forth, but not to final torque. Take out the chain slack on the intake side and set the cam timing per the manual. Tie the chain to the cam so it can't slip.
Install the exhaust cam and time it to the intake with the pin count. Tie the chain to the cam. Install the cam caps and sequentially tighten them all the way down as per the manual, little by little, but not to final torque.
Install the cam chain tensioner and recheck cam timing. Untie the chain from the cams, rotate the engine a few revolutions and recheck the timing.

Everything still good? Now torque the cam caps to final value, rotating the cams to place the lobes up (no valve spring load) on the adjacent cap bolts you are torquing down.

OK...that's my method (one of them). Just read the manual and use your head.

Had the cam chain tensioner lying on my workshop table and as I await the missing shims I decided to have a looksee. Well for some reason the part that ratchets out and applies pressure to the cam chain was seized. Would not move in or out. So I sprayed it all with WD-40 and it loosened up and began to work. It worried me because who knows how long it has been that way. So I am opting for replacing it. This is the new version of the cam-chain tensioner I think. I’ll search the forum for a suitable replacement. If you know of one let me know.
 

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Some here have used the Tokyo Mods version with success. I have a spare OEM (updated version) if you need.
 

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?

Have successfully removed the bolts that secure the cam shafts in place...phew! They were tight but an allan wrench with a pipe as lever worked great. Was able to exert smooth pressure until they loosened. Now am in the process of calculating and inserting new shims. Secured the cam cahin with wire and will post pics soon.
You, and everyone else needs to get an impact screwdriver...........that and a brass hammer and you're good to go
Here's my 1975 SnapOn PIT-120, then less than $10......I have 3, bought my Father one and found one at the junk yard:wink2:
 

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Have successfully removed the bolts that secure the cam shafts in place...phew! They were tight but an allan wrench with a pipe as lever worked great. Was able to exert smooth pressure until they loosened. Now am in the process of calculating and inserting new shims. Secured the cam cahin with wire and will post pics soon.
You, and everyone else needs to get an impact screwdriver...........that and a brass hammer and you're good to go
Here's my 1975 SnapOn PIT-120, then less than $10......I have 3, bought my Father one and found one at the junk yard
Very cool, just googled it, as I have never seen one. Got lucky this time!
 

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Go visit your local Japanese motorcycle dealer and get the shims you need. They may even just swap with you (maybe)....

Install the intake cam at TDC #1 per manual, sequentially tighten the cam caps all the way down as per the manual, little by little, back and forth, but not to final torque. Take out the chain slack on the intake side and set the cam timing per the manual. Tie the chain to the cam so it can't slip.
Install the exhaust cam and time it to the intake with the pin count. Tie the chain to the cam. Install the cam caps and sequentially tighten them all the way down as per the manual, little by little, but not to final torque.
Install the cam chain tensioner and recheck cam timing. Untie the chain from the cams, rotate the engine a few revolutions and recheck the timing.

Everything still good? Now torque the cam caps to final value, rotating the cams to place the lobes up (no valve spring load) on the adjacent cap bolts you are torquing down.

OK...that's my method (one of them). Just read the manual and use your head.
Thank you for taking the time to write out the procedure you use! I will recreate it hopefully I will execute properly! Still seeing what to use for CCT Kawasaki or OEM
 

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You can read from my 750/910 hydrid thread in customisation, there is one method that i used.

But here goes again:

- no 1 in TDC, and marks lining, like you would when adjusting valves etc etc..
- take off valve cover
- measure the stock tension, it should be around 1,65 mm freeplay when pulling with 4kg force between the cam gears. Use spring scale, kinda one you use to weigh fish
- now make a "rod" that you jam between the chain slider and cylinder head, this is to keep the chain in the exact same tension while you take the OEM cct of
- insert the manual cct, and turn the tension with your fingers until you feel the previously inserted rod loosen, DONT LET IT SLIP!!!
- lock the manual cct with the nut
- check again with the spring scale, you should get close the previous freeplay, maybe tad less

Your done my friend! Go and enjoy your smooth running MV :)
 

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You can read from my 750/910 hydrid thread in customisation, there is one method that i used.

But here goes again:

- no 1 in TDC, and marks lining, like you would when adjusting valves etc etc..
- take off valve cover
- measure the stock tension, it should be around 1,65 mm freeplay when pulling with 4kg force between the cam gears. Use spring scale, kinda one you use to weigh fish
- now make a "rod" that you jam between the chain slider and cylinder head, this is to keep the chain in the exact same tension while you take the OEM cct of
- insert the manual cct, and turn the tension with your fingers until you feel the previously inserted rod loosen, DONT LET IT SLIP!!!
- lock the manual cct with the nut
- check again with the spring scale, you should get close the previous freeplay, maybe tad less

Your done my friend! Go and enjoy your smooth running MV <img src="http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />
Thank you for taking the time to explain! Finally have all the shims. Will begin putting back together tomorow!
 

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Well, the nightmare of putting it back together has begun. I am having a hard time finding the posts that show how to get the cam chain back on properly. I thought I had it right, however the mark on the phonic wheel moved when I rotated the engine. Now I have to take it all apart again. What happens if you turn the phonic wheel clockwise?

Can someone please post links to the threads that describe the process. I looked in the "All you need to know section" and could not find it. So many threads about Valve Clearances yet I cannot find the right one ! Fuuuuhhh!

Do I have to raise the front wheel to have the engine level?

1) Secure phonic wheel at TDC. ( How do I know if it is at TDC once cams have been taken off?)
2) I hope I have not broken anything!
3) The manual says....

Oh well. I'll get back to it again this afternoon.
 

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The crank can be turned in either direction, will cause no problems.
The piston is at TDC when the mark on the phonic wheel is aligned with the mark in the crankcase.
Take all the slack from the intake side of the chain (opposite the tensioner side), time the intake cam and lock the chain to the cam. Then go to the exhaust and do the same. Finally install the tensioner (after cam caps are secured). Rotate engine a few times and check timing.

You can actually move the chain on the cam sprockets (with some effort and care) after removing the tensioner if the timing is off a tooth.

First time you do this it is a PIA, but once you figure it all out it isn't that tough. Just don't force the crank to turn if it seems to be stopping at some point (valve/piston interface). Remove the spark plugs so you aren't fighting compression. Patience
 

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"The piston is at TDC when the mark on the phonic wheel is aligned with the mark in the crankcase." One revolution of the phonic wheel equals one full revolution of the engine? I thought it was two.

"Remove the spark plugs so you aren't fighting compression." They are out.

"You can actually move the chain on the cam sprockets (with some effort and care) after removing the tensioner if the timing is off a tooth." Ok, Ill try this.

I will disassemble and try again after some meditation, jajaja

Patience is right!

Insert the inlet camshaft so that the phase notch on the
conveyer wheel is parallel to the head plane and facing
the outside.
Insert the exhaust camshaft with the notch placed between
the 24th and 25th chain distribution gudgeon,
beginning to count from gudgeon after the inlet camshaft
notch.
Check the correct position of all the O Rings under the
head stands.
NOTE: If the operation is performed with the engine
installed on the vehicle, lift the front wheel until
the axis of the cylinders is in a vertical position.
Position the n°2 and n°3 stands, referring to the numbers
towards the inlet end;
Position the n°1 and n°4 stands,
Bring the screws together manually hexagonally
embedded beginning with the stand n°2.
Before tightening stand screws be sure that
the chain tensioner is assembled.
Do not tighten the stand screws if the reaction
springs are charged. Appropriately turn
the camshaft so that the stand springs of
which are to be tightened are uncharged and
that the cams are positioned on the base
radius.
 

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The phonic wheel mark and crankcase mark will denote TDC on cylinders 1 and 4. Rotate one turn and you will be back on 1 and 4 TDC
Timing the cams will determine which cylinder (1 or 4) is on compression and which is on overlap.
Set the phonic wheel on the marks and the crank is at TDC. Install cams.
Don't overthink it.

You don't have to elevate the front wheel, just make sure the marks all line up. The engine could be upside down and you could still install and time the cams (although it would be really hard to do). I am not sure why the manual would say that.

Pull all the cam caps down with the bolts in a crossing gradual pattern...Do the final torque with the bolts "uncharged" as they say. AFTER you have confirmed timing is correct.
 

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The phonic wheel mark and crankcase mark will denote TDC on cylinders 1 and 4. Rotate one turn and you will be back on 1 and 4 TDC
Timing the cams will determine which cylinder (1 or 4) is on compression and which is on overlap.
Set the phonic wheel on the marks and the crank is at TDC. Install cams.
Don't overthink it.

You don't have to elevate the front wheel, just make sure the marks all line up. The engine could be upside down and you could still install and time the cams (although it would be really hard to do). I am not sure why the manual would say that.

Pull all the cam caps down with the bolts in a crossing gradual pattern...Do the final torque with the bolts "uncharged" as they say. AFTER you have confirmed timing is correct.
Ok Thank you Sir! Ill hit it again after work today!
 

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Second time install cams...input please.

It seems that there is some slack on the intake side of the cam chain. At this point. All the cam shaft stands are installed. The phonic wheel is secured at TDC. The intake side of the cam chain is wired to the cam shaft sprocket. I have the CCT installed not all the way. No spring or pin inside. As I tightened the cam stands, I would finger tighten the CCT so it would exert pressure on the EX side of the cam chain.

So the cams are aligned horizontally with the marks in the right place. The phonic wheel is dead on TDC. Yet when I look down on the intake side I see slack. It seems that as the cams are lowered due to the tightening the slack became pronounced on the intake side,

I am afraid that if I turn the phonic wheel the slack on the intake side will throw the timing off and I will have to start all over again.

How do you compensate for the slack in the chain as the cam stands lower onto the cylinder head? I tightened each screw with an allan key in a criss cross pattern until the stands were seated. They screws have not been toques to spec yet.

I was thinking that if I remove the CCT again I can maybe work the slack out of the IN side of the Cam Chain, by pulling it up and towards the EX side.

I attached some pics.
 

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"You can actually move the chain on the cam sprockets (with some effort and care) after removing the tensioner if the timing is off a tooth."

Thank you Es'quz me!! Found the answer in your previous reply!! had to re-read it.
 

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Fully install the tensioner before you make any decisions.

The slack should leave the intake side of the chain when the tensioner is installed. The chain slack is due to cam lobes pressing on valve springs and pushing the cam clockwise.

The timing marks look good in the photo, EXCEPT the crank (phonic wheel) marks which look as if they could rotate a bit more counterclockwise to completely align. Maybe it's the photo angle?

If you find the intake cam off by one tooth after clamping the cam caps then you will need to compensate that much when you do initial timing and secure the chain (again).

it can be a little touchy-feely process...but everything will align when correct.
 
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