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Discussion Starter #1
I'm sorry and a bit embarrassed to bring this up again but here's what happened:

1) My MV felt like it steered in two pieces (front then back);
2) Turns out when Pro Italia lower the rear of my bike they forgot to lower the front end. They did that at my first service and the bike handled great!
3) Then, I dropped the MV two days later.
4) Convinced I had bent the clip on, I let the professionals at Pro Italia take a look at it. They looked at the brass indicators and the clip on and said it was fine. I asked them to ride it to be sure and after 10 minutes, they said it was fine. Lowered front end really makes it turn well.

It's been about a week and I'm feeling the bike still does not "feel" the same as it did before I dropped it. It's a very, very minute difference but the hard part is I can't really put my finger on exactly why it feel different. After the first service, it felt perfectly balance and "sharp" steering. Now, it seems slightly less so - a bit vague. But no adjustment to the compression/rebound were made since the service. Possible causes could be the wheel alignment or a bent clip-on. But I'd be the first to confess I lack the experience or even the tool (here in Los Angeles) to really make the adjustments beyond simple compression and rebound readjustments.

So, it puts me in an awkward position because I'm can't exactly explain why it feels different and Pro Italia already check it out and said it's fine. Of course I could take it back to Pro Italia but that's basically setting them up to say "Okay fine! We said nothing's wrong before -so will find something wrong for you and charge you -just so you feel better." And of course, I keep wonder if it's just me. Any thoughts?
 

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stupid question: did you check the pressure in the tires?
 

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i say keep putting in time on the seat. the more you ride it the more your naggling mind will leave you alone to either let it go or better diagnose EXACTLY what it is you feel. you can't even ride anyone else's to compare because of the modifications to the ride height. spend more time on it. and like someone else said...check the tire pressures.
 

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I would also look to see if the wheel bearings or head bearing are loose.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Tire pressures? I'm suppose to check those? haha. :) That's a good point. I haven't and the temp changes from my ride to and from work are about 20 degrees!

Style, I was thinking the same thing. Even riding the demo model at PI was hair raising because it's so tall.
 

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I agree with style_one. Seat time is all you can do to diagnose it or get over what's going on in your head. I've had my brain play tricks on me before similar to what you're mentioning. The bike is probably fine, but if you ride it more you may find it isn't or be able to diagnose the problem. I think it's in your head.
 

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Compared to my 748, my F4 is very ill handling. I put that down mostly to old tyres and possibly an inoptimate set-up, so I forgive it for now until I get it looked at in the spring. (Bear in mind I only bought it in July and have only had it for about 3 weeks as it's been off the road for the rest of the time..) Even with correct tyre pressures the steering always tries to force itself to turn in when leant over, and run wide. I can ride around it, but it just feels freaky, and unlike anything I've ridden before.

Getting to my point in replying... try not to subconsciously accentuate the perceived problem by worrying about it. You could be tensing up worrying that it's not right and actually creating a problem that doesn't exist.

Si
 

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Why don't you just measure the clipon like I told you to do in a previous post?
just stick the tape measure from the allen head inside the clipon weight down to the pin through the wheel clamp, It will put your mind at ease if nothing else, then forget all this push on the bars, and weight the peg leaning over shite, and just ride the f*****g thing, forget the lot, just
RIDE IT
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I re-read your previous post several time -even before I created this one and thought hmm..how do I do that. :( [hangs head in shame]

First set the wheels exactly in line- fishing wire along the back tyre just touching the rear tyre, and measure from the fishing line to the front and back of the front wheel, or a good straight edge will do the same, move front wheel left or right to get these two measurements the same.

Now measure from the end of the clip on vibration bolt back (here's were I got lost) to some point like the bolts that hold the rear subframe on,

And also straight down maybe to the fork bottoms, any differneces greater than a couple of mm and something is bent.
 

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Allan Gibbs said:
I re-read your previous post before I created this one and thought hmm..how do I do that. [hangs head in shame] I got the fishing line part to check if the wheels are straight but lost it from that point on.
The whole purpose of this is to get the front/rear wheel perfectly in line with each other, (bike on rear stand)

Take the fishing line around the back wheel about 8 inches or so high and then past the front wheel to something like a pair of axle stands, pull the stands in or out to create a rectangular box from the rear wheel with the fishing line just touching the front and back of the rear wheel.

You could just put a huge straight edge onto the rear wheel alongside your bike, but the chances of you or me having one that is straight and long enough is remote,

When you have your fishing line dead straight and just touching both sides of the rear wheel you need to measure from the fishing line to both sides of the front wheel/tyre, adjusting the steering untill these measurements are the same, then when you have these measurements the same you know your front and rear wheel are perfectly in line.

Then just measure from that allen head in the clip on end back to perhaps one of the rear subframe mounting bolts and compare side to side, also measure down to the front wheel spindle somewhere,

It should point out quite easily if the clip on is bent.

It's a ball ache to do, but should tell you if they are straight or not, and put your mind at ease :) Hope I have expalined it better this time :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Dong!! I got it. Basically:

1) Make sure the handlebars is perfectly centered by aligning front and back wheels;

2) Make sure the distance between a point on the clip on to a point of each side of the motorcycle are the same by measuring the distance from the allen head on the clip on to a point on the sub frame. This will tell me if the clip on is bent foward or backward. Measuring the distance from a point on the clip on to a point in the front wheel (spindle). This will tell me if the clip on is bent upward or downward!

I got! :idea: Thank you.
 

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I had a similar experience last year when I binned my F4 750 at Donnington park :ahhh: . Thankfully it was a lowside and I was able (with help of marshalls) to pick it up and ride it back to the pits. With the help of some of the other guys we were able to get all the gravel out, clean her up and tape up the broken plastics and modify a couple of other parts that usually suffer in a low side into the kitty litter and I was out on the track again after lunch. Cut a long story short the bike didn't feel right I could have sworn that something was wrong with the front end. I was lucky that there was another, much more experienced, F4 owner there who was kind enough to take my bike for a quick blast around the empty parking lot. He assured me that there was nothing wrong with the bike. I took it in for its service a couple of weeks later and like you asked the guys to check it all out carefully because of my accident - they also said they could find nothing wrong with it. The more that I rode it over the following weeks the better it felt and the more I could feel my confidence coming back.
IMHO once you've checked tyre pressures, head tightness, alignment, clipons and made sure that shocks slide smoothly and found all these (as I did in my case) to be ok then it's all in your head - don't go looking for problems. Just ride it.
 

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Allan Gibbs said:
Dong!! I got it. Basically:

1) Make sure the handlebars is perfectly centered by aligning front and back wheels;

2) Make sure the distance between a point on the clip on to a point of each side of the motorcycle are the same by measuring the distance from the allen head on the clip on to a point on the sub frame. This will tell me if the clip on is bent foward or backward. Measuring the distance from a point on the clip on to a point in the front wheel (spindle). This will tell me if the clip on is bent upward or downward!

I got! :idea: Thank you.
:drummer:
 

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mikef4uk said:
The whole purpose of this is to get the front/rear wheel perfectly in line with each other, (bike on rear stand)

Take the fishing line around the back wheel about 8 inches or so high and then past the front wheel to something like a pair of axle stands, pull the stands in or out to create a rectangular box from the rear wheel with the fishing line just touching the front and back of the rear wheel.

You could just put a huge straight edge onto the rear wheel alongside your bike, but the chances of you or me having one that is straight and long enough is remote,

When you have your fishing line dead straight and just touching both sides of the rear wheel you need to measure from the fishing line to both sides of the front wheel/tyre, adjusting the steering untill these measurements are the same, then when you have these measurements the same you know your front and rear wheel are perfectly in line.

Then just measure from that allen head in the clip on end back to perhaps one of the rear subframe mounting bolts and compare side to side, also measure down to the front wheel spindle somewhere,

It should point out quite easily if the clip on is bent.

It's a ball ache to do, but should tell you if they are straight or not, and put your mind at ease :) Hope I have expalined it better this time :)
Your method probably works fine, but I approach it from the opposite end.

I run the line around the front wheel, at the foremost point. Then pull the lines back and secure them to stands at the rear of the bike. By measuring the point where the line passes the rearmost point of the front wheel I can establish a straight and true front wheel. Then I measure where it passes the rear wheel to confirm alignment.

This is really useful on a bike with a standard double sided swingarm to confirm rear alignment after chain adjustment.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
uhh...well.....i found out two things. One - something really was off that was causing the "handling problems". Two - I'm such a dim witt!

uhh..yeah....so, I check the tire pressure and the front is like...well....30 psi and the rear is 36. So, that explains the "vagueness" and my trouble controling the bike at very low speeds. I normally like it high so bring it up to 34/38 took care of it.

I normally check my psi every two or three weeks but didn't because it was just serviced. And I was soo eager to assume it was a bent clip on or misalignment.
I'm so embarassed! :loser:
 

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Allan Gibbs said:
I'm sorry and a bit embarrassed to bring this up again but here's what happened:

1) My MV felt like it steered in two pieces (front then back);
2) Turns out when Pro Italia lower the rear of my bike they forgot to lower the front end. They did that at my first service and the bike handled great!
3) Then, I dropped the MV two days later.
4) Convinced I had bent the clip on, I let the professionals at Pro Italia take a look at it. They looked at the brass indicators and the clip on and said it was fine. I asked them to ride it to be sure and after 10 minutes, they said it was fine. Lowered front end really makes it turn well.

It's been about a week and I'm feeling the bike still does not "feel" the same as it did before I dropped it. It's a very, very minute difference but the hard part is I can't really put my finger on exactly why it feel different. After the first service, it felt perfectly balance and "sharp" steering. Now, it seems slightly less so - a bit vague. But no adjustment to the compression/rebound were made since the service. Possible causes could be the wheel alignment or a bent clip-on. But I'd be the first to confess I lack the experience or even the tool (here in Los Angeles) to really make the adjustments beyond simple compression and rebound readjustments.

So, it puts me in an awkward position because I'm can't exactly explain why it feels different and Pro Italia already check it out and said it's fine. Of course I could take it back to Pro Italia but that's basically setting them up to say "Okay fine! We said nothing's wrong before -so will find something wrong for you and charge you -just so you feel better." And of course, I keep wonder if it's just me. Any thoughts?


"I let the professionals at pro italia"

Allen, This is a very dangerous way of thinking.... An oxymoron , if you .will....For your own good, please attempt to rethink this trust that you have....Not everything is as it seems....I am not a disgruntled client, Its just that my eyes are wide open and I dont enjoy having more knoledge then the folks working on my machine,,,Now, I know this outfit is quite popular here on the board.... and I am well aware my insight will not be in sync with the lions share of members from some of the many Pro Italia cheerleeder's here on the board.....All I have to say is- BE forwarned...They know how to work on Ducati's , I'll give them that...But when it comes to MV's--- They simply dont have the goods....IF you want to be horrified, PM me- I will scare the hell out of you!....


GOOD luck, Keep it between the hedges,

FBD
 

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Koop said:
Your method probably works fine, but I approach it from the opposite end.

I run the line around the front wheel, at the foremost point. Then pull the lines back and secure them to stands at the rear of the bike. By measuring the point where the line passes the rearmost point of the front wheel I can establish a straight and true front wheel. Then I measure where it passes the rear wheel to confirm alignment.

This is really useful on a bike with a standard double sided swingarm to confirm rear alignment after chain adjustment.
How does that work to get the lines parrellel to each other when the rear wheel is wider than the front?

But I do know what you mean, I had a Monster S4 and the chain adjusters were half a digit out! I told the shop this when they serviced the bike, but alas every time I got the bike back they "re-aligned" my poor chain adjustment, you could tell instantly, just let go of the bars and the bike would head for the hedge :jsm:
 

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Hey Allen,

I find the tire pressure thing to be absolutely critical. Firstly I think 38 in the rear is too high. I could be completely wrong, but 34-36 gives me a much better feel, again it's my opinion.

I always try to check the tire pressure as frequently as every couple tanks of gas. I found on a previous Brutale that the front pressure would drop to 25psi in a matter of a week or so. ProItalia were unable to find the cause. I always carry a digital tire pressure guage in my jacket. Incidentally, my R1 LE rear tire pressure after being unridden for 2 months was 15psi.

Something else worth bearing in mind is that the temperatures are dropping even here in So. Cal. This effects tire pressures, as you know, but really effects grip levels and most importantly the 'Feel' of the bike. On top of all this, this is a confidence factor. Generally speaking after dropping a bike it tends to change your approach and demeanour. Your tentativeness could be affecting your understanding of the bike. We all have good riding days and bad riding days. I love the chat at the ridng destinations, like say Newcombs Ranch. "How was your ride?" "Great, I had a really good rhythm", or "Shite, I had no rhythm".

Incidentally, I completely agree with the Fireeating guy. Not especially targeting ProItalia, but any motorcycle/car dealership generally, 'DO NOT specifically trust them'. Question them. I could have owned a MAJOR Honda dealership several years ago, after the oil drain plug fell out of the bike after a major service.... fortunately it happened leaving an exit ramp at 35mph. Not at the 125mph I had been doing 2 minutes earlier... I was feeling generous and didn't sue the shit out of them...

Also, I suggest letting go of a lot of the theroretical stuff on riding techniques. The reality is that you're probably doing all of that stuff anyway... but actually trying to think about it,- a guys mind isn't designed to do much thinking...
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for your help and responses everyone. It's unusual for me to have forgotten to check the pressure. Usually, when my car/bike starts to feel different it's the first place I look but dropping the bike just convinced me otherwise. Incidentally, I tipped over my old '02 MV at a gas station in 2003 which did cause the clip on to bend. So, it was easy for me to think it happened again.

And I agree about not relying on a dealer to take care of everything - I just know my current limits (learned the hardway). After all, Pro Italia is the one who did the initial setup and lowering of the rear but forgot to do compensate by lowering the front -even though we were banging our heads BEFORE I bought the bike to get it lower. Do I think there service is bad - certainly not. But I just call things like I see it.

As in terms of tire pressure, I started at 34/38 since it was colder (night time) and will adjust from their. On a side note, I appreciate this forum and the shop manual pdfs. Very helpful. It's very hard to learn about your bike with only an owners manual.
 
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