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Discussion Starter #1
OK, so thinking a lot about the collectable F4's. Tamburini, CC, Senna, Veltro, Ago, etc.

A lot of us bought non-collectable F4's throughout the '99-'08 period. And most of us just lusted over the collectable models. Sure, a few of us actually bought them. But, most of us just lusted.

So, here's the thing. Those of us who lusted either (1) finally bought the collectable bike we've been lusting after, or (2) realize that we'll never be able to afford that bike, or (3) the lust has passed.

Obviously, (3) is the interesting one.

Really. For how many of us has the burning desire to own a Tamburini, CC, Senna, Veltro or Ago passed? Surely for some, the desire is still there. But, I suspect for many, the fire has nearly died. After all, it's a 6+ year old bike that we've kind of grown accustomed to seeing in so many pictures on the web. And to many, the idea that it's SO FREAKING special (since really the technology of a 6 year old bike has been surpassed) has grown old. So, are there new lusters out there? New lusters must replace the (3) to prevent a decline in value.

Please don't think that I don't appreciate these jewels. Because, they each had their period of glory in all of our minds.

Objects (cars, motorcycles, works of art) go through periods of varying values and collectibility. The Ferrari market has been a roller coaster in my lifetime.

So, are we in a period where the collectable F4's are in decline. Will we have to wait for the next resurgence of interest in these bikes for values to escalate?

Just want to throw this out there, as I feel we're on the brink (or smack in the middle of) a recession in collectable F4 values.
 

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I think the values will start to rise again. Yes, new bikes are swathed in a blanket of technology, but personally, I couldn't care less about that. 99% of riders can't even take a 1999 R1 to its limit, so how do they think they can take an HP4 to its limit? Sure, it has gobs of techno goodies on it, but it still takes two things to push a superbike to where it's really happy. Balls and skills (ok, that's three things). And honestly, I haven't seen a new superbike that actually sparks an interest for me. I've ridden a couple S1000RRs and they're boring. And ugly. I still lust over the Tambo, Veltro, CC, and Andrew's F4 even though they're "outdated." They're beyond my reach and I've accepted that.

Only other bike I lust after that isn't an MV is the Desmo. Lord knows I'll never own one of those.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
So Nick, you're part of (4) "The lust is still there."

But, the market is suggesting that (4) is also a diminishing group. So, either new lusters must come to replace (3) and (4), or values decline.

Where will the NEW lusters come from? And when?

Baby boomers rejuvenated the market for US muscle cars. They wanted the cars of their youth. What will trigger the F4 collectable market to resurge?
 

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I still lust after them. The new model does not have the same sexy look as the old ones. With that being said I would lust over a limit F3. And thank you very much J spec. Not sure if my bike is that special. A money pit yes, but is very special to me.
 

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So Nick, you're part of (4) "The lust is still there."

But, the market is suggesting that (4) is also a diminishing group. So, either new lusters must come to replace (3) and (4), or values decline.

Where will the NEW lusters come from? And when?

Baby boomers rejuvenated the market for US muscle cars. They wanted the cars of their youth. What will trigger the F4 collectable market to resurge?
New lusters? 90% of the people I talk to about my F4 lust after it and deem it "untouchable." They don't even know about the limited edition models. Then again, 50% of those 90% don't even know what an MV is, so there you go.

And not just baby boomers want muscle cars. Everyone wants a muscle car. :smoking:


And Andrew, yes, your bike is that special. I put your bike in the category of the top-end Moto Corse Platino. And I would sell a lung for one of those.

(For those who don't know what the Platino is)
 

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I've been asked on numerous occasions "What's a good collectable bike?" or something similar. My answer has always been, "Buy the bike you want to own and that you can afford".

Similarly I've been asked "Is this a good investment bike?". My answer is "There is not one production bike of the last twenty years which has appreciated $1 in value." That is not quite true as the Honda Rune has increased. There are some bikes which the owners have made money on usually by selling their deposit or the bike just after they took delivery. Ducati MHE, Ducati desmocedici, MV Senna come to mind. There are also some bikes which have for some reason obtained a cult status for a short period and the value of the second hand bike is higher than when purchased new. Again another Ducati, the sport classic. Remember we are talking about a bike less than 20 years since it was released.

If you sit back and analyse the limited edition bikes in many cases they are 'dressed up' standard bikes. Ducati super light is a 900 SS with carbon and a single seat. The MV Senna, Ago, Special Parts, SR, are basically standard bikes with up spec engines and different graphics which are surpassed in performance by the next generation . Then there are the 'add on' kits such as the America, Corse.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't lust after them and even buy one. Personally I have dreams of owning a F4 Tamburini or a Pista. If finances were unlimited then one of each of the oros (F4, Brutale & F3) would be in the shed simply because they were the first and in all honesty would probably never be ridden. There would be other standard, less collectable versions which would be for riding.

You will probably find that in twenty to thirty years these limited edition bikes will again be in demand simply as people will have established their careers, paid the mortgage off, the kids have left the nest and are now in a position to indulge, relive or something similar their youth and now wish to acquire their 'dream' bike which may be a limited edition or just the basic model. And yes, a limited edition low mileage original bike is always worth more than the stock standard version.
 

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I think if you view collectable models as a means of an investment, then look elsewhere to invest your cash.

If you view collectable models in desireablility then "yes", buy them. For what you pay, I think they are worth it. You can Nickel & Dime the cost effective ratio of various components but to me the complete package of these collectable models is really something special and more than the sum of their parts.
 

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Did it have a titanium frame?
That I do not know. I'll look for the pictures from when I visited the Moto Corse warehouse and actually got to touch that bike. Also, I'm pretty sure MC Japan has a history section on their website where you can read about the different builds. I think one of the Platinos started life as a Tambo, as well.
 

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OK, so thinking a lot about the collectable F4's. Tamburini, CC, Senna, Veltro, Ago, etc.

A lot of us bought non-collectable F4's throughout the '99-'08 period. And most of us just lusted over the collectable models. Sure, a few of us actually bought them. But, most of us just lusted.

So, here's the thing. Those of us who lusted either (1) finally bought the collectable bike we've been lusting after, or (2) realize that we'll never be able to afford that bike, or (3) the lust has passed.

Obviously, (3) is the interesting one.

Really. For how many of us has the burning desire to own a Tamburini, CC, Senna, Veltro or Ago passed? Surely for some, the desire is still there. But, I suspect for many, the fire has nearly died. After all, it's a 6+ year old bike that we've kind of grown accustomed to seeing in so many pictures on the web. And to many, the idea that it's SO FREAKING special (since really the technology of a 6 year old bike has been surpassed) has grown old. So, are there new lusters out there? New lusters must replace the (3) to prevent a decline in value.

Please don't think that I don't appreciate these jewels. Because, they each had their period of glory in all of our minds.

Objects (cars, motorcycles, works of art) go through periods of varying values and collectibility. The Ferrari market has been a roller coaster in my lifetime.

So, are we in a period where the collectable F4's are in decline. Will we have to wait for the next resurgence of interest in these bikes for values to escalate?

Just want to throw this out there, as I feel we're on the brink (or smack in the middle of) a recession in collectable F4 values.
I'd say this is such a niche market, it's hard to generalize in this manner. But in many ways, you make very valid and accurate points.

The CC is unique in that there were so few manufactured and fewer imported into the US (29). And it was ultimately heavily discounted to sell the last 8 in this country ($55K, with watch, jacket, and other swag). I don't know how much of that happened at what point in Europe, but it was similar by early 2010. Gary just sold his for $46K after offering it on the forum for $42K.

I think bikes in that price range that aren't CVO Harley Baggers just aren't pulling the money in this economy. Some of the typical market is those who have a huge dent in their financial statement now.

The Veltros are a market unto themselves, and are very slow to move. Asking prices are healthy to hefty. Tamburinis aren't much brisker, but it's still down to the elevated end of the pricing spectrum rather than outright desirability.

A Serie Oro is only gonna be bought at this point by someone wanting all the specs but the base 750 engine. The 750 segment is all but dead, so that's a factor.

All the other production bikes are very competitively priced but less desirable as exotica because they lack carbon bodywork, even with the carbon trim bits. They fall into your overall description, I'd say.

The "kit" bikes are so few and far between, only an MV enthusiast knows or cares about them unless they stumble upon one. Full carbon Mambas and Vipers sell for barely more than the value of the base bike the parts are on. And they're rocking horse pooh anyway.

I'd say a comparison to comparable Ducatis and the scattered equivalent Aprilia (RSV1000 Nera) and Benelli (Tornado Tre LE) is appropriate. Those are every bit as dead, when one can be found. The SPS and R Ducatis may be a bit more steady, but not by much.

How much of all this is a by-product of the overall market and economy relative to discretionary entertainment purchases? I think that's it more than lust. But my own lust may obscure that with bias.

I lust for all of the above. Always have, and always will. I just add to it with newer models, not replace it.

Motorcycles are depreciating assets like virtually all motorized vehicles. They're not primarily for investment, even in limited quantities. They're an expense and a cost instead. Depreciation is often minimized, at least from some shorter term. But in the end, very few motorized vehicles are investments; especially when insurance and others costs are indexed including inflation-indexed dollar values.

But I'm probably resisting the truth in your assessments. I don't really know.
 

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For me the componentary and technology doesnt play a factor. I understand bikes today have better brakes sudpension and so forth but im purchasing a bike cause i want it for what it is for what is behind it.

It was only yesterday spiro sent me a mail of a mv agusta 1972 magni 860 and i said WOW that is the bike too have and i love it. It has no technology at all but just pure soul.

If anyone here thinks bikes are investments then youve made a bad move in investing money. Bikes certaiy MVs wont appreciate anytime soon and i dont think ever. Why i say that. Cause today as mentioned people have sooo many options in buying bikes with less money with more tech. And compared to the car market the bike market is far smaller creating less of a demand. So for me unless you have a complete MV enthusiast willing to buy a limited edition at a high price it will be very hard to sell for what us MV nuts want for it. Thats why i buy my bikes to
Ride. Never to be sold never to be left hidden away but to be enjoyed and ridden like they were built too.

Just talking with blake has me eyeing a pista. Alot of people dould say why its just a race bike. But for me i want to have the ultimate race MV. I dont care for the price i just want one. I think im a scarce breed of person. But then again money also comes to play. So for alot of us financial position restricts us. But for me even though i know i cant buy one now doesnt see me lusting for it less.

I have noticed that fewer people even know the brand MV. So im thinking cause of this has this been a big factor of its ability to hold prices? You would think bikers would know what a CC was or a tambo? Right? Nobody even knows what im riding which to me doesent even bother me at all. So i guess branding and marketing is a key factor. Look at lambo and ferrari everyone knows what they are. MV not at all. Well in oz that is. MV never had the backing here like frasers did with ducati. Instead MV got stuck out of the city in a factory with no marketing and branding at all selling the ultimate bike in the worst place possible. Of course nobody will know what they are.

If it was me i would have opened MV right next to ducati. That wiuld have brought the customers here that is and i think would have branded it and made itself more well known which may have helped its pricing or not but certainly would have educated more bikers about the brand by situating it next to ducati you would have had all there customers also come to MV being next door snd seeing the bikes and being educated on them giving them another choice.

To end what makes something desirable? It has too be unique have a story behind it. The CC named snd comissioned after the man himself, the ago named after the great , senna , the desmo the motogp replica and only manufacturer to produce or even sell it for people to undetstand what its like to ride a motogp bike , the 998R was the king of superbikes the last of tamburinis design and still till today is a sexy bike. They all have something that picks for everyone differently. I love them all. I just need more money lolll
But blake we will talk soon loll








Sent from Motorcycle.com App
 

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The only (modern) limited MV I've ever really listed after is the F4 Oro. Never really been impressed by the others. It just stank of Castiglioni trying to extract a premium from customers when he should have been investing a lot earlier in improving the breed rather than just painting it up and sticking a few flashy bits on them.

A limited edition is never going to be collectible for the sake of sound financial investment. But, there's a chance they might depreciate a little slower. But the market seems to be suggesting that original early 750s are starting to climb in value a bit. (And they weren't a limited run.)

A decent investment 20 years ago would've been an RC30. I can't think of anything else that'd fetch more now for what it would have cost then.

If I were buying a bike now as an investment I think the only thing I'd consider would be a low mileage mint Desmocedici.

Si
 

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Regarding low mileage collectable bikes.
I'm calling bullcrap.

I've seen some incredible bikes here in New Zealand recently - see picture below.
The last thing I was thinking was - gee, I wonder how many miles on this thing?
The very last thing.
What I was thinking was - holy moly - that's stunning, I'd love to get the chance to ride that!

I think it's a shame that some folks are somehow convinced that by not riding their bikes or sharing them with friends, they are adding value to what they unfortunately appear to see as an investment.
I think that the emotional return of riding these exotic bikes far outweighs any potential profit to be found in not riding them.

Right, thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Stepping down from my soapbox and getting back on subject - I don't lust for any other collectable MVs because I'm living the fricken' dream already.
Actually, the Ago F4 1000 is a very nice bike.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Dave, please know that I am not disparaging anyone's bikes or anyone's interest in the collectable F4's. Like many of us here, I too lust after and would love to have a Tamburini.

I realize enthusiasts don't worry about depreciation when buying a motorcycle or car. My motorcycles are worth a 30-50% of what I paid for them, but I never gave that consideration in buying them. I do have one car that is worth about 4 times what I paid for it, but I didn't buy it thinking it would appreciate.

I was just throwing out there for discussion whether there seems to be fewer people interested in the collectable F4's today than a few years ago.
 

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I thought an F4 1078RR312 would be rare and collectable - wrong !
Lack of dealerships / parts, drops the price. It was 拢12300 in May 2011, probably lucky to get 拢9000 now.
Spend the money.
 

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When it comes to 'collectable' bikes I'm sure we all have a dream bike which we would love to have and is probably out of our reach, at least for the moment. For current bikes the dream bike will continually change. For MVs it may have been the 750 Senna, then the SR then the 1000 Senna, then the Ago followed by a Tamburini and then 鈥 With these it will be ever changing and then settle down on a particular bike, perhaps the Tamburini which will stay the dream bike for decades irrespective of whether it is surpassed by the newer everyday versions which are better in performance etc in every aspect. If you do eventually obtain a Tamburini then great. Park it in the lounge room, office, under the covers in the garage, add it to your private collection/museum, ride it, don't ride, whatever. You purchased it because you wanted it even if the reason was to have the 'best toy on the block'.

Personally. I prefer to ride my bikes but for the 'collectable bikes' I just choose where and when. I usually put a value on the trip. I took my 1979 900 SS Ducati on a five day, 2500 km ride through the hills to travel the 137 kms from my front door to the Phillip Island MotoGP. We would encounter rain, dirt and possibly mud but the value of travelling with 9 other classic Ducatis on some great roads was well and truly worth it. Would I ride the same bike the 137 kms along the freeway on a sunny day to the same event to park it in a paddock outside the circuit .. no as the value wasn't worth it.

So I still say, "buy the bike you wish to own irrespective of the reason for ownership". As to what you do with it once it's yours is totally up to you but I would encourage everyone to ride their dream bike so others can also enjoy the pleasure of it.
 

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Very interesting thread.....
 

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I thought an F4 1078RR312 would be rare and collectable - wrong !
Lack of dealerships / parts, drops the price. It was 拢12300 in May 2011, probably lucky to get 拢9000 now.
Spend the money.
I's say that if its only costing you around 1,100 in depreciation per year thats not bad. Another few years and it will settle and prob won't drop much further, may even start slowly appreciating.




Please take with a pinch of salt :cross:
 
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