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Discussion Starter #1
As with emvee, my new Brutales' settings are too hard on our bumpy rural roads so i am attempting to soften things up a little.

Maybe I'm stupid but I can't make sense of the MV manual.

Firstly, where is the starting point (or standard position) for front & rear dampening adjustment, the manual says to find it turn screw clockwise and then anticlockwise? This assumes that you come back to the point that you started at, then, according to the adjustment tables, to set for a soft ride, turn nut 12 clicks clockwise and for a firm ride 7 clicks. Surely the more clicks the harder the ride, or does increasing dampening soften the ride?

The spring preload principle makes sense to me - turn the nut clockwise to increase the preload - manual says 1 turn for soft and 3 for firm, however where is the startpoint? Do i turn the nut fully anticlockwise until it stops?

I read the Ohlins info as suggested it all makes good sense but those bloody Italians (I'm still hurting from the World Cup loss) have confused me.

Thanks
 

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It took me a couple times reading the manual myself.

For example, to set the rebound to standard, you turn the rebound screw clockwise all the way (until it does not click anymore) and then count the number of clicks (5) anticlockwise.

Easy.
 

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it's the same for all suspension systems really.

when you turn the adjuster (rebound/compression) clockwise, you are seating a needle valve. when it stops turning, the needle is fully against the seat and the oil bypass is blocked. that forces all the oil through the rebound/compression damper. when you turn the screw counter-clockwise, you are moving the needle away from the seat, and that allows oil to bypass the valves, which lessens the damping effect - softer damping.

so, to set the suspension for any bike, you always turn the screw until it's fully seated (all the way in), and then start counting clicks as you back it out.

the preload is a bit different. when you turn that one, you are "pre-compressing" the spring. all that does is change the ride height. you are adjusting where in the suspension travel the bike rides.

as an aside, popular misconception is that by adding preload, you make the suspension "stiffer". the spring stiffness is set by the coil thickness, winding, and spring material. no amount of preload can make a spring stiffer. the spring constant (the K term is Hooke's Law ) is determined only by the type of spring in the system.

alex
 

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byronmv said:
As with emvee, my new Brutales' settings are too hard on our bumpy rural roads so i am attempting to soften things up a little.

Maybe I'm stupid but I can't make sense of the MV manual.

Firstly, where is the starting point (or standard position) for front & rear dampening adjustment, the manual says to find it turn screw clockwise and then anticlockwise? This assumes that you come back to the point that you started at, then, according to the adjustment tables, to set for a soft ride, turn nut 12 clicks clockwise and for a firm ride 7 clicks. Surely the more clicks the harder the ride, or does increasing dampening soften the ride?

The spring preload principle makes sense to me - turn the nut clockwise to increase the preload - manual says 1 turn for soft and 3 for firm, however where is the startpoint? Do i turn the nut fully anticlockwise until it stops?

I read the Ohlins info as suggested it all makes good sense but those bloody Italians (I'm still hurting from the World Cup loss) have confused me.

Thanks
The fork adjusters work like a needle valve, they are a by-pass that allows the oil to "by-pass" the main shim damping, so the further you turn them out the bigger the by-pass hole will be and the softer the suspension will be, turning them all the way in untill they stop forces all the oil to go through the suspensions shim stack.
 

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fazer6 said:
^^ :laughing: Simultaneous post :laughing:
WOW, thats spooky :eek: , close on word for word the same, its odd how many people think they are making the spring harder by adjusting the preload, :jerkoff: its the same in the car world :confused:

We did have some very nice adjustable springs on the cars though, the bottom spring pan had the same helix as the spring machined into it, to adjust the spring rate you simply wound the spring into this machined ally block then locked it with an allen bolt, thus shortening and hence increasing its rate, they were four "rate" adjusatable, you also screwed the height up four turns for every one increase in rate to maintain the ride height, whether they would look out of place on a bike i'm not sure?
 

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byron, the first place to start is with spring rates. Do this by checking "sag". Most manufacturers including Marzocchi make about four or five different springs for their forks and for good reason. Rider weight varies from 130 to 250 lbs., so one size does *not* fit all - or at least not very well. No amount of twiddling with screws will make up for the wrong springs.

As has been correctly stated, increasing preload does NOT increase the spring rates. But.... a lot of preload makes a spring FEEL stiffer for the reason that it preloads or "pre-uses" the spring. A fixed amount of force has been delivered to the spring and the spring will not react to forces below that threshhold level. This includes small bumps. More preload = less initial compliance.

This is why, when given a choice between two springs - both within the "correct" limits - many riders will choose the stiffer spring as it requires less preload and often "feels" softer due to the fact that far less of the initial compliance has been "cranked out".

I don't know what changes MV made to subsequent models, but my 750 was the worst of both worlds - waaaay too soft a spring and far too much damping. Result - no amount of preload would deliver the correct ride height; too much sag meant much of the suspension was "used up" just by sitting on the bike and little was left for riding conditions; the front end dove much too far much too fast even on the street; damping was so stiff the forks banged over every bump and rebound was so stiff it gave little feedback and only a fraction of the planted feel those forks are capable of delivering.

Bottom line, forget about the book settings. Get a hold of a tuner or take the forks apart yourself and figure out what's right for you. Good luck.
 

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Does anyone know what rider weight the MV F4 1000 is set up for as standard?
I'm 185ibs (83kg) and find that for me the bike handles pretty good on stock settings. I've really not needed to change anything yet maybe when I really start pushing it I may need to make small changes but right now I've not noticed anything that stands out at all.
My old 03 R1 was obviously soft and needed a lot of set up to get it right but this feels pretty sorted without any suspension adjustment.
 

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reptile said:
Does anyone know what rider weight the MV F4 1000 is set up for as standard?

According to Cagiva USA (our importer) the F-4's are sprung stiffer than the Brutale. But... my Brutale's fork was sprung much stiffer than the specs Cagiva gave me (F-4 springs in there) and it was still way too soft. For me. :)

So, either Cagiva got the numbers wrong OR the parts actually installed may be different from bike-to-bike. It's probably best to check then go through the usual suspension diagnostics and assess how it's doing in specific situations.
 

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here's what i ran on my F4S 1k at Willow Springs. I didn't change too much from these as the day went on.

Front
Preload 7 turns
Rebound 8 clicks
Compression 8 clicks

Rear
Preload 4 turns
Rebound 18 clicks
Compression (low speed) 14 clicks
Compression (high speed) 2 clicks

btw, i'm about 220lbs w/gear.

these setting are between standard and stiff, more to the standard side

alex
 

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altoon said:
here's what i ran on my F4S 1k at Willow Springs. I didn't change too much from these as the day went on.

Front
Preload 7 turns
Rebound 8 clicks
Compression 8 clicks

Rear
Preload 4 turns
Rebound 18 clicks
Compression (low speed) 14 clicks
Compression (high speed) 2 clicks

btw, i'm about 220lbs w/gear.

these setting are between standard and stiff, more to the standard side

alex

Thanks Alex, that's about the same weight as me with gear, I'll do some fiddling with my suspension over the next couple of weeks or so. At the moment I'm just getting used to the feel of the bike and am really really impressed with it. :D
 

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reptile, I have read that the stock F4s (04 and 05's) were set up at the factory for a rider weighing 80kgs and a height of 175cms.
 

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altoon said:
here's what i ran on my F4S 1k at Willow Springs. I didn't change too much from these as the day went on.

alex
Alex, what is the front/rear sag on your bike?
 

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emmvee said:
I don't know what changes MV made to subsequent models, but my 750 was the worst of both worlds - waaaay too soft a spring and far too much damping. Result - no amount of preload would deliver the correct ride height; too much sag meant much of the suspension was "used up" just by sitting on the bike and little was left for riding conditions; the front end dove much too far much too fast even on the street; damping was so stiff the forks banged over every bump and rebound was so stiff it gave little feedback and only a fraction of the planted feel those forks are capable of delivering.
Hmm. My 04 SPR has fairly stiff springs in front (but are perfect), and soft spring on the rear shock. Preload is maxed and is still has a bit more sag than I'd like. ~180 no gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Since my last post and having read all the sage advise, I've adjusted all the dampening and preload settings to 'soft' (according to the manual)
However, I went for a 2 hour blast including freeway and backroads and the bike still is horrible. Every minor bump and ripple shakes up through the bike. It seems to be mostly through the rear.
Let me make it clear that my other current bike is a BM1200RT tourer and i purchased the MV for just mucking about on our local (bumpy) roads. I have no interest in tearing around the track and thus my riding preference (and ability) leans toward 'cruisy' so maybe even on the 'softest' settings the MV may comparitively harsh???? It is bouncing terribly though.
I've called the service guy at the selling dealer and pointed out my probs as well as an anomally in the owners manual that perhaps one of you guys can explain (cause he can't)
I feel the front settings on soft are ok
The rear high and low speed dampening adjustments seem to conflict though. As you guys have pointed out, to adjust them, screw the adjusters fully in and then turn out (counterclockwise) to decrease dampening (confirmed by the + & - on the screws)
However, the high speed book setting is '0' clicks whilst the low is '15' for soft So does this not mean the high speed is on the firmest setting?
The high speed adjuster is not a screw but a 'ring' which turns around the smaller 'screw' low speed adjuster. Does this work differently ie. opposite.
Thanks
 

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i'm not sure on this, but i do believe that the high speed compression adjuster is different. it is backwards.

on some shocks, the high speed compression damper works directly on the shim stack spring. it preloads the spring on the shim stack. the penske shock works like this. not sure about the sachs.

alex
 

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altoon said:
here's what i ran on my F4S 1k at Willow Springs. I didn't change too much from these as the day went on.

Front
Preload 7 turns
Rebound 8 clicks
Compression 8 clicks

Rear
Preload 4 turns
Rebound 18 clicks
Compression (low speed) 14 clicks
Compression (high speed) 2 clicks

btw, i'm about 220lbs w/gear.

these setting are between standard and stiff, more to the standard side

alex
now when you say clicks....is this turning the screw clockwise or counter clockwise?
 

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first - fully seat the screw - turn it clockwise until it stops (be easy on it)
then - turn it counter clockwise and start counting
 
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