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Formerly WYD OPN
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ducati 1199 Panigale R:
184.04hp / 87.47tq (with full Termi exhaust/ECU map)
418# wet
Lap: 1:52.50 (4th)

BMW S1000RR (not HP4):
178.38hp / 74.53tq
461# wet
Lap: 1:50.30 (1st)

MV Agusta F4 1000 RR:
172.96hp / 72.75tq
470# wet
Lap: 1:52.72 (5th)

Aprilia RSV4 Factory APRC:
159.79hp / 74.42tq
466# wet
Lap: 1:50.68 (2nd)

Kawasaki ZX-10R:
156.62hp / 71.37tq
442# wet
Lap: 1:51.37 (3rd)

(A sequel to last year's test, which had Aprilia and Kawasaki mechanical DNFs. Here are the other comparative numbers from 2012.)

Ducati 1199 Panigale S:
169.59hp / 83.14tq
430# wet
Lap: 1:53.34

MV Agusta F4 1000 R
169.24hp / 73.21tq
480# wet
Lap: 1:52.68

KTM RC8 R
148.76hp / 81.44tq
450# wet
Lap: 1:53.51

EBR 1190RS Carbon
145.83hp / 77.49tq
421# wet
Lap: 1:51.33

Honda CBR1000RR
150.36hp / 76.32tq
448# wet
Lap: 1:52.96

Suzuki GSX-R1000
162.53hp / 76.77tq
447# wet
Lap: 1:51.35

Yamaha YZF-R1
148.31hp / 73.32tq
477# wet
Lap: 1:52.72


Comparative factoids...
• The F4 R and the Panigale S are a dead heat for hp, with the Pani being 50# lighter.

• The F4 RR and the Panigale R are a dead heat for hp without the Termis on the Duc, with the Pani being 52# lighter.

• Though it's always lambasted for its weight, the F4 RR is only 4# and 9# heavier than the Aprilia and the BMW, respectively. The HP4 is a bit lighter, but wasn't in the test. That would be another 5-8# lighter.


Here's the RRW summation for the F4 RR...
"This thing has so much wasted potential," summed up Toye. "It's got a chassis that I think turns. It's got the hardest thing to have with an inline four in that it's good on its side. This thing is killer on its side. And then it makes a ton of power. If we could fix the suspension and then correct the fuel injection and TC maps, this thing would be gnarly. It could be really gnarly, but as it is it's messed up."


It sounds like Chris at X-Bikes has a fix for most of the electronics except final corrective mapping for the ride-by-wire throttle; and I believe that's promised from Eldor for the near future.

Toss on a full TI exhaust with tune, and the F4 RR is equivalent in weight and power to the BMW HP4 at ~455# and over 180hp. Both are the same output of the Pani R, but still carrying 30+# extra.

Make of all this whatever you will, whether positive or negative, or some of both. I see a bike with incredible potential, that unfortunately has to be unleashed by customers tweaking a new $25K bike to finish product development.

It's gorgeous and fixable. I hope.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Compiled:

Ducati 1199 Panigale R: 184.04hp / 87.47tq (with full Termis)
BMW S1000RR (not HP4): 178.38hp / 74.53tq
MV Agusta F4 1000 RR: 172.96hp / 72.75tq
Ducati 1199 Panigale S: 169.59hp / 83.14tq
MV Agusta F4 1000 R: 169.24hp / 73.21tq
Suzuki GSX-R1000: 162.53hp / 76.77tq
Aprilia RSV4 Factory APRC: 159.79hp / 74.42tq
Kawasaki ZX-10R: 156.62hp / 71.37tq
Honda CBR1000RR: 150.36hp / 76.32tq
KTM RC8 R: 148.76hp / 81.44tq
Yamaha YZF-R1: 148.31hp / 73.32tq
EBR 1190RS Carbon: 145.83hp / 77.49tq

Ducati 1199 Panigale R: 418# wet
EBR 1190RS Carbon: 421# wet
Ducati 1199 Panigale S: 430# wet
Kawasaki ZX-10R: 442# wet
Suzuki GSX-R1000: 447# wet
Honda CBR1000RR: 448# wet
KTM RC8 R: 450# wet
BMW S1000RR (not HP4): 461# wet
Aprilia RSV4 Factory APRC: 466# wet
MV Agusta F4 1000 RR: 470# wet
Yamaha YZF-R1: 477# wet
MV Agusta F4 1000 R: 480# wet


BMW S1000RR (not HP4) Lap: 1:50.30
Aprilia RSV4 Factory APRC Lap: 1:50.68
EBR 1190RS Carbon Lap: 1:51.33
Suzuki GSX-R1000 Lap: 1:51.35
Kawasaki ZX-10R Lap: 1:51.37
Ducati 1199 Panigale R Lap: 1:52.50
MV Agusta F4 1000 R Lap: 1:52.68
MV Agusta F4 1000 RR Lap: 1:52.72
Yamaha YZF-R1 Lap: 1:52.72
Honda CBR1000RR Lap: 1:52.96
Ducati 1199 Panigale S Lap: 1:53.34
KTM RC8 R Lap: 1:53.51
 

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Discussion Starter #3
To clarify... The winner (BWW) of the 2012 shootout of ten bikes was tested in 2013 form against the 2013 versions of the two DNFs (Aprilia and Kawasaki) from 2012 and the two other bikes that were changed from last year (MV F4 RR and Duc Pani R); while not retesting the unchanged bikes (YamaHondaZuki, Buell, KTM, MV F4 R, and Duc Pani S). And BMW didn't have an HP4 available for testing instead of the standard S1K.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
For reference... In 2011, RRW only fielded three contestants. Others were omitted either because they weren't upgraded and changed (YamaZuki), or were unavailable until later (Aprilia APRC Edition), or had been "beaten" in the 2010 shootout. This left the Honda, BMW, and Kawasaki as "New Kid, Champ, and Wild Card", respectively.


BMW S1000RR:
172.26hp / 74.18tq
462# wet
Lap: 1:51.66

Kawasaki ZX-10R:
158.21hp / 71.99tq
442# wet
Lap: 1:50.96

Honda CBR1000RR:
147.81hp / 74.59tq
440# wet
Lap: 1:51.94


Compiled:
BMW S1000RR: 172.26hp / 74.18tq
Kawasaki ZX-10R: 158.21hp / 71.99tq
Honda CBR1000RR: 147.81hp / 74.59tq

Honda CBR1000RR: 440# wet
Kawasaki ZX-10R: 442# wet
BMW S1000RR: 462# wet

Kawasaki ZX-10R: 1:50.96
BMW S1000RR: 1:51.27
Honda CBR1000RR: 1:51.94
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Fro 2010... (Different "happier" dyno, different track venue.)

BMW S1000RR: 184.75hp / 81.06tq
Kawasaki ZX-10R: 164.18hp / 76.78tq
MV Agusta F4: 163.77 / 76.76tq
Suzuki GSX-R1000: 161.64hp / 78.47tq
Aprilia RSV4 Factory: 161.61hp / 76.97tq
Honda CBR1000RR: 155.11hp / 78.52tq
Yamaha YZF-R1: 152.62hp / 76.77tq

Honda CBR1000RR: 440# wet
BMW S1000RR: 455# wet
Suzuki GSX-R1000: 457# wet
Kawasaki ZX-10R: 458# wet
Aprilia RSV4 Factory: 460# wet
MV Agusta F4: 470# wet
Yamaha YZF-R1: 473# wet

BMW S1000RR Lap: 1:53.21
Honda CBR1000RR Lap: 1:54.88
MV Agusta F4 Lap: 1:55.05
Aprilia RSV4 Factory Lap: 1:55.15
Kawasaki ZX-10R Lap: 1:55.79
Yamaha YZF-R1 Lap: 1:56.09
Suzuki GSX-R1000 Lap: 1:56.20
 

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Discussion Starter #6
And... The last time an MV was included in the shootout was in 2007.

Suzuki GSX-R1000: 166.69hp / 78.85tq
Kawasaki ZX-10R: 164.91hp / 80.51tq
MV Agusta F4 1000R: 161.56hp / 77.37tq
Yamaha YZF-R1: 160.34hp / 76.89tq
Honda CBR1000RR: 155.01hp / 78.09tq
Ducati 1098S: 145.96hp / 82.22tq

Ducati 1098S: 434# wet
Honda CBR1000RR: 450# wet
Kawasaki ZX-10R: 451# wet
Yamaha YZF-R1: 459# wet
Suzuki GSX-R1000: 466# wet
MV Agusta F4 1000R: 478# wet

MV Agusta Lap: 1:40.55
Yamaha YZF-R1 Lap: 1:40.84
Suzuki GSX-R1000 Lap: 1:41.44
Kawasaki ZX-10R Lap: 1:41.75
Honda CBR1000RR Lap: 1:41.76
Ducati 1098S Lap: 1:43.03
 

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Discussion Starter #7
For kicks, here are the 2004 numbers; but only three bikes tested.

Kawasaki ZX-10R: 161.90hp / 80.50tq
Honda CBR1000RR: 153.20hp / 78.50tq
Suzuki GSX-R1000: 150.50hp / 77.70tq

Kawasaki ZX-10R: 430# wet
Suzuki GSX-R1000: 442# wet
Honda CBR1000RR: 467# wet

Suzuki GSX-R1000 Lap: 1:35.62
Kawasaki ZX-10R Lap: 1:35.68
Honda CBR1000RR Lap: 1:36.58
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
The new Duc Pani S finally equals the 430# wet weight of the 2004 ZX-10R. Only the $40K+ carbon EBR and the new Duc Pani R undercut the 9yo Kawi. (And the old Kawi has cast wheels. Even the Duc Pani S has forged hoops.)
 

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Except it's only more recently that weight figures from manufacturers is actually something resembling being honest.

I bet these weren't actually weighed, but going off the manufacturer spec
 

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Great information compiled. I'm going to save this with a basis of comparing numbers going forward. Thanks for the research and work on this information.


Sent from Motorcycle.com App
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Except it's only more recently that weight figures from manufacturers is actually something resembling being honest.

I bet these weren't actually weighed, but going off the manufacturer spec
Nope. RRW weighed them all in real time. All the "dry" manufacturer weights were way more bogus. These are the real deal.

The '04-'05 ZX-10R was that light, and ahead of the game. No electronics, but cast wheels.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Great information compiled. I'm going to save this with a basis of comparing numbers going forward. Thanks for the research and work on this information.
I'll add the '08 and '09 numbers from RRW, but no MVs were included.
 

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Good info.

As great as the advancements in power, traction control, and adding ABS are I would rather see lighter weight bikes minus the electronic aids.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Good info.

As great as the advancements in power, traction control, and adding ABS are I would rather see lighter weight bikes minus the electronic aids.
I like the sales model of having two different versions of each superbike. The base model with base suspension, cast wheels, and no electronics; and the premium model with "active" suspension, forged wheels and full electronics.

The wheels and quickshifter, etc. can all be parts and accessories upgrades in the catalog. Obviously, the European manufacturers are already doing that, and with three tiers of product. The Japs haven't done much of that beyond choice of ABS/non-ABS and a few limited editions.

In reality, all the electronics now only add about 10 pounds or so. More weight can be saved with aftermarket exhaust and forged wheels by far.

An S1000RR with BSTs, ceramic bearings, lithium battery, titanium exhaust, and all Ilmberber carbon body panels could get that 461# wet down to Panigale R weight at 418#, or maybe a bit less. Toss in a trip to Carpenter racing for headwork, cams, and tuning; and it's a +30hp package for about 210 at the tire.

All that for a little more than the price of a Duc Pani R. I may have just talked myself into it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
From the RRW 2009 comparison test...

Kawasaki ZX-10R: 162.36hp / 75.79tq
Suzuki GSX-R1000: 159.89hp / 79.50tq
Honda CBR1000RR: 157.83hp / 76.80tq
Yamaha YZF-R1: 152.98hp / 76.61tq

Honda CBR1000RR: 442# wet
Suzuki GSX-R1000: 456# wet
Kawasaki ZX-10R: 460# wet
Yamaha YZF-R1: 474# wet

Kawasaki ZX-10R Lap: 1:20.108
Honda CBR1000RR Lap: 1:20.544
Suzuki GSX-R1000 Lap: 1:21.092
Yamaha YZF-R1 Lap: 1:21.184


And from the RRW 2008 comparison test...

Suzuki GSX-R1000: 156.48hp / 74.48tq
Kawasaki ZX-10R: 155.91hp / 72.72tq
Yamaha YZF-R1: 150.50hp / 76.64tq
Honda CBR1000RR: 149.66 / 72.22tq

Honda CBR1000RR: 438# wet
Kawasaki ZX-10R: 456# wet
Yamaha YZF-R1: 460 wet
Suzuki GSX-R1000: 466# wet

Honda CBR1000RR Lap: 1:25.86
Kawasaki ZX-10R Lap: 1:25.94
Yamaha YZF-R1 Lap: 1:26.27
Suzuki GSX-R1000 Lap: 1:26.43
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
AGGREGATE of the above weights from RRW comparison tests:

2013 Ducati 1199 Panigale R: 418# wet
2012 EBR 1190RS Carbon: 421# wet
2004 Kawasaki ZX-10R: 430# wet
2012 Ducati 1199 Panigale S: 430# wet
2007 Ducati 1098S: 434# wet
2012 Kawasaki ZX-10R: 438# wet
2008 Honda CBR1000RR: 438# wet
2010 Honda CBR1000RR: 440# wet
2011 Honda CBR1000RR: 440# wet
2004 Suzuki GSX-R1000: 442# wet
2009 Honda CBR1000RR: 442# wet
2011 Kawasaki ZX-10R: 442# wet
2013 Kawasaki ZX-10R: 442# wet
2012 Suzuki GSX-R1000: 447# wet
2012 Honda CBR1000RR: 448# wet
2007 Honda CBR1000RR: 450# wet
2012 KTM RC8 R: 450# wet
2007 Kawasaki ZX-10R: 451# wet
2010 BMW S1000RR: 455# wet
2008 Kawasaki ZX-10R: 456# wet
2009 Suzuki GSX-R1000: 456# wet
2010 Suzuki GSX-R1000: 457# wet
2012 Aprilia RSV4 Factory APRC: 457# wet
2010 Kawasaki ZX-10R: 458# wet
2012 BMW S1000RR: 458# wet
2007 Yamaha YZF-R1: 459# wet
2008 Yamaha YZF-R1: 460# wet
2009 Kawasaki ZX-10R: 460# wet
2010 Aprilia RSV4 Factory: 460# wet
2013 BMW S1000RR (not HP4): 461# wet
2011 BMW S1000RR: 462# wet
2007 Suzuki GSX-R1000: 466# wet
2008 Suzuki GSX-R1000: 466# wet
2013 Aprilia RSV4 Factory APRC: 466# wet
2004 Honda CBR1000RR: 467# wet
2010 MV Agusta F4: 470# wet
2013 MV Agusta F4 1000 RR: 470# wet
2010 Yamaha YZF-R1: 473# wet
2009 Yamaha YZF-R1: 474# wet
2012 Yamaha YZF-R1: 477# wet
2007 MV Agusta F4 1000R: 478# wet
2012 MV Agusta F4 1000 R: 480# wet


Interestingly, with a mean central weight of 450#, nothing in the last 10 years (or more) from any manufacturer has been more than +/- 30#; and that's even with forged versus cast wheels, and with lighter race exhaust systems included on a handful of models.

Note the Duc Pani S with its frameless design is less than 5 pounds lighter than the 1098/1198S it replaced.

Also note the Gen2 MV F4 is only slightly less porky than the Gen1.
 

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Nope. RRW weighed them all in real time. All the "dry" manufacturer weights were way more bogus. These are the real deal.

The '04-'05 ZX-10R was that light, and ahead of the game. No electronics, but cast wheels.
Well blow me down, I'll eat my hat sir. :wtf:

Sorry for the assumption :thewife:

Wow that is quite interesting then :bandit:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Well blow me down, I'll eat my hat sir. :wtf:

Sorry for the assumption :thewife:

Wow that is quite interesting then :bandit:
No need for headwear consumption. :)

I'm compiling all the CW and Motorcyclist/SR stats/specs, too. They're all showing the same ranges.
 
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