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Discussion Starter #1
Hi there

Need some help diagnosing this. Is it my battery acting up or something else?

I keep the battery on the supplied MV charger when parked up.

I noticed a few months ago that I also had starting issues (starter and motor turns over like normal - just not firing up) when I had my mobile phone plugged into the usb charger (coupled directly to the battery via the battery charging plug under the seat. If I unplug the mobile phone out of the usb port and there is no current draw - happy days. When plugged in - she takes a few turns to fire up. To explain - 4 or 5 starting attempts of 4 to 5 seconds each.

Past few rides have been cold - in the 1 - 6 degree range. When heading out - starts first time no problems. Rode 30 minutes to meet point. Starts up no issues afterwards. After a further 30 minutes ride I stopped at a servo to fill up with fuel. Problems starting up then - the starter turns over like normal, just requires quite a few 5 seconds or longer attempts before she finally fires into life (not something you want to do on a bike with sprag issues in the model history ). I had the Oxfords heated grips on during the ride. i make a point of switching it off before i started (due to previous usb charger problem above).

I still have the original BS BTZ10S SLA battery installed. 9 months old

Battery voltage 13.09V with everything switched off (manual says above 12.5 V good). There is no current leak or draw.
Battery voltage 14.45V while running measure over the charging fuse connection to the bike earth.

I will be riding with my multimeter next time to measure the voltage once I start getting the same problem again.

Can it be the battery? If it was, why does the bike still turn over the starter/motor like crazy - no slow down of starter as a flat battery would indicate?

Is the MV that sensitive that it would turn over and NOT spark if the voltage drops a bit?

Are there any other sensors that could perhaps be giving a false signal that would stop it from firing and not stop it from turning over?

Typing this i realize i still have to measure the voltage over the battery when the bike is running and the oxford heated grips are on.

Any advice?

I think I'm going to invest in a Lithium battery (SSB LFP14H-BS). Has a much higher cca if that helps.
 

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Current draw is measured with a specific tester, called a Tong Tester. Putting a tester on (V) across the battery terminals does not measure current draw GeorgO, how did you measure current draw?

The battery Voltage sounds good, but current carrying capacity you have to get measured with a load tester, any auto dealer/Battery centre should be able to do this for you buddy.

It's like looking at a cup of coffee with milk in, it all looks great as the recipe says, but it doesn't tell you how much sugar is inside until you taste it.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Current draw is measured with a specific tester, called a Tong Tester. Putting a tester on (V) across the battery terminals does not measure current draw GeorgO, how did you measure current draw?

The battery Voltage sounds good, but current carrying capacity you have to get measured with a load tester, any auto dealer/Battery centre should be able to do this for you buddy.

It's like looking at a cup of coffee with milk in, it all looks great as the recipe says, but it doesn't tell you how much sugar is inside until you taste it.
Current draw measured by disconnecting + terminal and measuring amps with multimeter. very small mA reading so nothing draining the battery.

Can a person measure the 'health ' of your battery by checking the voltage reading during the starting process?

Anyway - just picked up a new Lithium battery this afternoon. If it's not the original battery that's faulty at least i get a 1.4 kg weight saving .
 

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Hahaha, good on you mate.
In general you cant check the current carrying capacity this way, it can be a sure fire tell-tale it's munted, but it really does need to be a "before and after " measurement. So unless you knew what it did when new, you have no measuring standard. That's what load testers do.
Which LiFo battery did you get ?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hahaha, good on you mate.
In general you cant check the current carrying capacity this way, it can be a sure fire tell-tale it's munted, but it really does need to be a "before and after " measurement. So unless you knew what it did when new, you have no measuring standard. That's what load testers do.
Which LiFo battery did you get ?
I got a SSB LFP14H-BS.
 

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Hi there
I still have the original BS BTZ10S SLA battery installed. 9 months old

Battery voltage 13.09V with everything switched off (manual says above 12.5 V good). There is no current leak or draw.
Battery voltage 14.45V while running measure over the charging fuse connection to the bike earth.

Can it be the battery? If it was, why does the bike still turn over the starter/motor like crazy - no slow down of starter as a flat battery would indicate?

Is the MV that sensitive that it would turn over and NOT spark if the voltage drops a bit?

Are there any other sensors that could perhaps be giving a false signal that would stop it from firing and not stop it from turning over?
I culled your post a bit for clarity and the short answer is yes.

Yes, your battery can show good resting and running voltage while being unable to maintain that voltage under the heavy amp drw of starting.

Yes, the engine can turn over and not develop spark. The ECU senses voltage and uses a base low voltage as a trigger to allow the ignition to activate the injectors and the spark.

Oh and the unasked question is also answered yes...the BS battery is just that.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I culled your post a bit for clarity and the short answer is yes.

Yes, your battery can show good resting and running voltage while being unable to maintain that voltage under the heavy amp drw of starting.

Yes, the engine can turn over and not develop spark. The ECU senses voltage and uses a base low voltage as a trigger to allow the ignition to activate the injectors and the spark.

Oh and the unasked question is also answered yes...the BS battery is just that.
Thanks a million for the support (you too Donsy). Confirms what I was thinking.

Read the maintenance manual last night and the section of sensors also explains that the battery voltage is used as an input to injector timing.

Would have thought that the LOGICAL thing would be for some kind of low battery warning to at least display if this was the case. But this bike is about passion not logic.

The replacement battery has a higher cca rating (290 vs 190) so hopefully will cure all this. Will fit this weekend and report back.
 

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I'm starting have issues with my dragster rr taking a lot of cranks to start when it has been running and engine heated up aka..stopping for gas etc...I did not think it was going to start today and had this ugly feeling of calling a tow truck. the fear is real and it has stopped me from going on a tour/ride tomorrow until I can determine if this is just me being paranoid, or there really is a problem...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm starting have issues with my dragster rr taking a lot of cranks to start when it has been running and engine heated up aka..stopping for gas etc...I did not think it was going to start today and had this ugly feeling of calling a tow truck. the fear is real and it has stopped me from going on a tour/ride tomorrow until I can determine if this is just me being paranoid, or there really is a problem...
mate - i have EXACTLY the same situation.

The new battery has not solved the issue. It will start up first time in the morning when everything is cold. Once you travel a bit (like to the nearest servo for fuel etc) it then required 3-4 attempts of a few seconds each before it kicks into life.

I did a 200km run to a favourite biker stop and when starting really took quite a few attempts to start.

I'll call the dealer tomorrow.
 

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I'm using premium fuel, it cost more but this bike has over 13.3 compression. it could really use a racing fuel. the hemi super stock engines I build have 14-1 and if we run them on pump gas it can only be to warm the engine, I cant "load" it on the dyno or the engine gets damaged (no knock sensors)..this bike not wanting to start is embarrasing, everybody notices and ask...does it allways do that? It's fun to ride and I don't want to get rid of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I use 98. Is that an issue? If so, have had the bike for 10 months now and only experiencing this over the past two months.

My understanding is that the sprag clutch issue comes with a CLACK noise when starting - I have none of that.

I saw in the forum a comment or two on the battery cables - replacing the battery to starter wiring to a better gauge? (Donsy can you help here?). What is that all about?
 

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The bikes are tuned for 95 fuel at the factory, going higher is a waste of money.
Check the Tech Tip section for contacts to replacement battery cables GeorgeO, tip #12 I think.
I'm not saying this will solve your problem, it's hard to fault find something like this over the Net, merely speaking from what I've seen or read on here. Not all Spragg failures make noise, I think Bruce mentioned this in the past.
 

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The bikes are tuned for 95 fuel at the factory, going higher is a waste of money.
I might believe it as I read publication on the impact of fuel on the power of motorcycle engines. They conducted series of tests with different fuel and different bikes. It appeared that engines using reach racing fuel like 98 or higher, especially the top like shell v power racing 100 generate even less power than those using poorer fuel like 95 (about 1,5hp so it is still within the measurement uncertainty but definitely does not make your bike faster). So it seems that using higher might only rinse and clean your engine :) unless your bike is tuned especially for reacher fuel.

I was also suprised cause I thought modern bikes with thousands of sensors can adjust to different fuel mixtures.
 

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I was also suprised cause I thought modern bikes with thousands of sensors can adjust to different fuel mixtures.
A knock sensor and the ability of the ECU to advance/retard the ignition accordingly would theoretically see benefits from using higher octane fuel. Don't think MVs have these though. Possibly some BMWs do ISTR.

However, higher octane fuels do tend to have less or no ethanol content, for Europe at least, compared to the regular 95RON stuff which usually has between 5 and 10% ethanol. Filled with 98RON exclusively whilst away in Spain recently as 95RON there is all 10%. Bike settles into tick-over on starting far better than before but this might just be break-in having covered almost 2000 miles over there. Going back to regular 95 will tell in time.
 

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I might believe it as I read publication on the impact of fuel on the power of motorcycle engines. They conducted series of tests with different fuel and different bikes. It appeared that engines using reach racing fuel like 98 or higher, especially the top like shell v power racing 100 generate even less power than those using poorer fuel like 95 (about 1,5hp so it is still within the measurement uncertainty but definitely does not make your bike faster). So it seems that using higher might only rinse and clean your engine :) unless your bike is tuned especially for reacher fuel.

I was also suprised cause I thought modern bikes with thousands of sensors can adjust to different fuel mixtures.
I wasn't guessing mate, the info come's straight from the factory.:stickpoke
And don't think higher octane cleans your engine either. If your system is not tuned to burn that fuel it will actually cause unburnt material build-up.
 

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I might believe it as I read publication on the impact of fuel on the power of motorcycle engines. They conducted series of tests with different fuel and different bikes. It appeared that engines using reach racing fuel like 98 or higher, especially the top like shell v power racing 100 generate even less power than those using poorer fuel like 95 (about 1,5hp so it is still within the measurement uncertainty but definitely does not make your bike faster). So it seems that using higher might only rinse and clean your engine :) unless your bike is tuned especially for reacher fuel.

I was also suprised cause I thought modern bikes with thousands of sensors can adjust to different fuel mixtures.

The higher the octane rating, the slower the fuel burns. If your engine does not have the compression to need the higher fuel, then that slow burn causes carbon, unburned fuel, to build up.

Higher octane has less energy.

You want to burn the lowest octane fuel that does not cause pre-ignition (knocking).
 

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Discussion Starter #20
So after a few days testing i'm in two minds - don't know if the new battery has truly solved the starting issues or not.

It's been a bit warmer past two weeks (min 6 degrees etc). She starts first time every time and starts within 4 seconds (on the second starting attempt) whenever I have stopped somewhere and she's still warm..
 
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