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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone use any kind of octane booster? I've seen a few products at some stores and advertised online, but I've never used any.

I cringe everytime I fill up, knowing the manual calls for a much higher rating than I'm able to buy (not to mention I'm forced to run oxygenated fuel). :confused: :errr:
 

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fazer6 said:
knowing the manual calls for a much higher rating than I'm able to buy
What is the highest octane gas in your neck of the woods? Around here it is 91....I think?...shit now you got me thinking and now am going to have to look it up or else I won't be able to sleep....see what you've done!? :rant:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah, 91 is the best I've got here, 92 when I travel some, but day to day is what worries me, the manual says to use like 98 or something :ahhh:
 

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i live in LA and there are scatter gas stations that sell the higher octane gas.. i forgot the exact level but i think it's something like 93 or is it more.. i can check later this week and get back to you on this. but it is expensive.. probably the same price as adding a bottle of booster. i try to keep some in a large gas can for giving my baby an occasional treat.
 

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yea I just looked at it and it says to use 95 or higher. Could it be the same as with cars that unless it rides rough you are more than likely okay? and why is oxygenated fuel bad?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Oxygenated fuel damages engine internals and promotes carbon buildup. The EPA pushes it because it burns *slightly* cleaner, but mostly 'cause of economic agendas.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
kamranmarashi said:
That's the Euro measurement. US measurements are different. Subtract 5 from the manual to get the US octane. US uses average while Australia and Europe use RON;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_octane_number
Hmm...True, US uses AKI, so if the manual says 95, we're okay with 90+?

Still, this is a minimum, anyone run a booster? I haven't noticed any knock, has anyone else?

EDIT: Another interesting note, I used to work for ISDA, and occassionally crossed paths with the Weights and Measures guys, and you'd be surprised how rarely the octane in the pump matches what's on the sticker. In more than 95% of stations (in Idaho anyway) the actual measured octane was 1-5% :eek: lower than stated. Unfortunatley, most of their regulatory power only deals with actual volume dispensing, and not octane ratings.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
odonata said:
I don't know much about this subject but I have heard that the octane boosters are bad for the engines?
I know many contain lead, which damage catalytic converters, but others should not harm the bike.
 

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fazer6 said:
Oxygenated fuel damages engine internals and promotes carbon buildup. The EPA pushes it because it burns *slightly* cleaner, but mostly 'cause of economic agendas.
No offense, but none of that is true.

All of the best race fuels are as highly oxygenated as rules permit. (go read the data sheet for a fuel like Ultimate 4 or MR9 from VP) [The AMA, when MTBE started being added to pump fuel, actually had to change their fuel spec. Original AMA specs allowed no oxygenates at all, and the pump fuel some privateers were using was actually failing their test! The AMA changed the rules to allow the privateers to continue using pump.] Oxygenated pump fuels actually make more horsepower as well as burning cleaner. HP junkies like us should be stoked the EPA mandates this stuff...

Let's examine what "oxygenated" actually means. Most people don't actually know, but oxygenated fuels contain a chemical/compound to add oxygen for use during combustion. MTBE was the favorite until the corn lobby has forced ethanol onto us (under the guise that MTBE is terrible for water...it does have problems, but ethanol has all the same ones). Ethanol is also an oxygenate, it adds more oxygen per unit volume than gasoline has. FYI, one of the best oxygenates is nitromethane, and nitrous oxide is a good one too; it works because it's oxygen molecule disassociates from the nitrogen under heat and becomes available for combustion. Just adding nitrous, or tipping a jug of nitro into your tank won't make power, you also have to enrich the fuel mixture to take advantage.

As you might infer, having more oxygen available in gasoline for combustion is an all around good thing. You get a more complete burn of the fuel (which means more gasoline is converted to power boosting engine efficiency, and less unburned hydrocarbons go out the tailpipe so they pollute less), and you can add more of the oxygenated fuel to the mix to burn, which yields more HP. Thus we come to what is by far the biggest detriment to oxygenated fuels: you get lower milage.

MTBE and ethanol are also hydroscopic, which means they attract with and mix with water. This does mean it binds with water in the fuel system and in some older cars, it could cause problems. (though this is a MASSIVELY overstated problem) Since we are now using fuels like E85, a mix of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, in humid places like the midwest, I think we can see that these problems are all easily addressed, and not deal breakers in any way. I wish E85 was readily available out here, I'd start converting my stuff to run it...a highly oxygenated, clean burning fuel, with an octane rating of 105 and less dependance on middle eastern oil for base stocks!

I've "tipped tank" to make race fuels that are 20%+ oxygenated or more, and it will make your bike downright angry (provided you map to it, and make sure your engine temps stay under control)...and the internals were much cleaner than any engine running around on pump swill...
 

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kamranmarashi said:
That's the Euro measurement. US measurements are different. Subtract 5 from the manual to get the US octane. US uses average while Australia and Europe use RON;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_octane_number
Exactly. :yo: Our premium meets the spec.

Now, on the subject of octane booster, most are just toluene with some other stuff added. The majority do not contain lead, but a few do. I'll tell you up front, I am not a fan of octane boosters unless I know exactly what is in them. Often times the "other stuff" are various cleaners I just don't want added to my fuel system or engine.

If you need octane, they do provide it, but they don't take what is already a marginal fuel, and make it good. Not to mention, it's a PITA to consistently use.

If you want to give your bike the good stuff, find some good oxygenated race fuel and map to it. Your bike will reward you with at least 5HP, along with getting much more responsive. Since the cost of this stuff is $10-20/gallon, it's not really worth it unless you're a serious track junky/racer.

Otherwise, just dump in the 91-93 octane available at your local pump and be happy with it...

On the track I typically run the lower grade 100 Octane VP or whatever they have in the track pumps. This is also basically a street oriented fuel, but with toluene and other things added. It doesn't make more power, but good fuel will let the engine run a bit cooler, and it provides a margin of safety while I'm out there running around WFO when it's 100 degrees outside. Plus, it gives me the pose factor, cool white exhaust tips and the right smell. :jerkoff: :guitarist :laughing:
 

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kamranmarashi said:
That's the Euro measurement. US measurements are different. Subtract 5 from the manual to get the US octane. US uses average while Australia and Europe use RON;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_octane_number
Yep that's right, I was going to say the same thing but decided to read the whole thread before I posted. In Europe we've got 95 and 98 Ron which are not the same as your US measurements :drummer:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
luvtolean said:
No offense, but none of that is true.
You make some good points, but there are two (or more) sides to every issue or debate. This one comes down to an issue of power vs. long-term reliability for me (similar to the 'break-in' discussions'). IMO the problems with oxygenation are under, not overstated, and simple logic shows anything that increases horsepower decreases durability. All major motorcycle maunf. prohibit the use of MTBE (my Honda even has it on the filler-cap, made me cringe every time), and most reccomend against using ethanol.
I will leave it at that, but thanks for helping to resolve the octane question.
 

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I have a buddy that works at Amoco (corporate, not the gas station :laughing: ) and know for a fact that the Ultimate is a better and more consistent fuel than any other fuel out there. The "clear" mostly is gimmick, but also is a testament to it's refining/filtering. It evaporates and detonates similar to that of race fuel it's so finely refined. Which lends a hand to it burning more evenly than other fuels on the market.

It's the only fuel on the market with it's own dedicated pumps, lines, and tanks. From refinery, to pump, it's kept completely isolated and seperate from all other gasolines.

The ratings on the Ultimate exceed the "top Tier" gasoline ratings. Most all gases here in the US do, but the Ultimate is the cleanest and most consistent rated gasoline, mostly in part due to it's seperation from other octanes. It's the reason Amoco and BP still have 3 pump stations, one for each grade, as to not mix with thier Premium fuel....

I wish he were typing this, he could go on and on, and provide all these statistics, numbers, studies, and facts....I just know, it and Chevron with Techron are the only gases that go in my bike. When those two aren't around, I suffice with Shell....but plainly put, Amoco Ultimate/BP Premium is the gas to use....
 
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