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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys

I just rolled over 100 miles on my Rivale. I went for a short ride today and noticed about a mile in when I pulled in the clutch in 6th gear to downshift into a turn, it stalled. I started it, then went straight up to a traffic light, pulled in the clutch and it did it again. The quickshifter was on. Once I got to my destination it was parked for about 6 hours. I moved the quickshfter to the off position went back and I no issues??

Both stalls on the way there were a little scary but wondering if any of you experienced this? My map is set to the normal position, haven't messed with any of the ignition timing yet. Wondering if I possibly had some bad gas. I am using 91 octane to 93 octane fuel.

This one is a head scratcher if anyone has any ideas, greatly appreciated!

Robb
 

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I think it's just a coincidence that when you shut the quick shifter off and ran the bike again after it cooled that it stopped stalling. It will probably start stalling more and more as you gain more miles, just as mine has.

Mine started stalling at about 150 miles. At 400 miles it became more and more frequent. At 600 miles it stalls every time I pull in the clutch. It's hardly rideable.

My dealer is going to look at it this weekend, but have said they don't have any service bulletins.

Are you located in the USA?
 

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Read the manual guys

Hi Guys

I just rolled over 100 miles on my Rivale. I went for a short ride today and noticed about a mile in when I pulled in the clutch in 6th gear to downshift into a turn, it stalled. I started it, then went straight up to a traffic light, pulled in the clutch and it did it again.

Both stalls on the way there were a little scary but wondering if any of you experienced this? My map is set to the normal position, haven't messed with any of the ignition timing yet. Wondering if I possibly had some bad gas. I am using 91 octane to 93 octane fuel.

From the manual...............

Only use unleaded alcohol-free fuel,
with a R.O.N. octane rating of 95 or higher.
The green dot on the lower side of the tank
cap and the label on the fuel tank serve as
reminders of this.

Use the correct grade fuel, it is written in the manual for a good reason.

jimboF4
 

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Hi Guys

I just rolled over 100 miles on my Rivale. I went for a short ride today and noticed about a mile in when I pulled in the clutch in 6th gear to downshift into a turn, it stalled. I started it, then went straight up to a traffic light, pulled in the clutch and it did it again.

Both stalls on the way there were a little scary but wondering if any of you experienced this? My map is set to the normal position, haven't messed with any of the ignition timing yet. Wondering if I possibly had some bad gas. I am using 91 octane to 93 octane fuel.

From the manual...............

Only use unleaded alcohol-free fuel,
with a R.O.N. octane rating of 95 or higher.
The green dot on the lower side of the tank
cap and the label on the fuel tank serve as
reminders of this.

Use the correct grade fuel, it is written in the manual for a good reason.

jimboF4
R.O.N. is the european standard for octane rating. If you're in the USA, you use AKI, which is typically 4-5 points lower than the R.O.N. rating, therefore 95 R.O.N. is equivalent to 91 AKI.

It's pretty much impossible to run alcohol free gas in the States too, which SUCKS! Our all-knowing government is actually pushing to raise the ethanol content from 10% to 15%, which will really take a toll on our small engines! It's all about the money (lobbyists and subsidies) because they (politicians) all know the ethanol destroys engines and fuel systems, and has absolutely no benefit to the environment.

Read here about octane ratings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
 

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Our all-knowing government is actually pushing to raise the ethanol content from 10% to 15%

Don't buy a Ducati then, their manual says they won't honour the warranty if anything over 10% is used!
 

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I assume American home manufactured cars and bikes can run on these raised ethanol level fuels, if so, is this a ploy and sign that high spec European cars and bikes are no longer suitable for the US market?

jimboF4
 

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I think we are in desperate need of a "sticky stalling thread" as this problem occurs to Rivale,Brutale,F3 and Dragster owners.....
 

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I have just over 700 miles on my Rivale and I have not had any issues. Then again I only use 93...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yes Resom,

I am in the USA. Bloomington, MN to be exact. That really bites yours keeps stalling. If you could let everyone know what the dealer says or figures anything out about your ride.

Speaking of the gas idea here, they do sell 93 octane gas at BP stations as well as 91 octane non-oxygenated gas but that is almost a dollar more. I will try it using the 93 octane and see what happens. Thanks for all the posts.
 

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Hey Snow,

Just out of curiosity, have you removed your EVAP cannister? I'm assuming you're in the USA.
not yet but it is on th elist to be dropped. I do it to all my bikes, did it to my RSV4 and it prevented the plastic tank from warping like all the other one did... will do the same here.
 

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not yet but it is on th elist to be dropped. I do it to all my bikes, did it to my RSV4 and it prevented the plastic tank from warping like all the other one did... will do the same here.
I'm 99% positive your bike will start stalling after you pull the EVAP, although, I can also see the issue causing the problem can affect bikes that still have the EVAP installed. There's a reason for the stalling issue, which I've figured out. I've already told my dealer what the fix is, which I'm sure they'll pass on to MV USA, which in turn will let the network of USA dealers know.

My Rivale runs the best its ever run now. No stalling and butter smooth throttle response, especially improved at low throttle settings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks everyone for your imput on this. That sucks about yours Resom. I hope the dealer can figure yours out. If they do, let us know on the forum what they figured out.

As for the fuel theory, I went from 91 octane to 93 octane like snow is using. I live in Minnesota and they do sell non Oxy gas, meaning it has no ethanol in it but it is a dollar higher. So if need be, I can go to that stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
I would love to know what you did to fix yours Resom?? Mine is getting worse and I've tried adjusting everything! Please let us know how you fixed it.

Thanks
Robb
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Just an update. Took mine out and the stalling is getting worse, but the highway speeds are fine. So between 15-40 miles per hour I need to watch out when I downshift as it might stall. I've changed the map from normal, to sport, that makes staying at a constant speed dangerous on the throttle and it gets jerky and not smooth. Guess that would make sense for sport. I have not tried the rain map if I thought that would help. I just put an email into MV as well tonight, and my dealer is checking on a new US map if there is such a thing. And Resom was right, it makes no difference if the quickshifter is on or not, this is clearly something else. My next last ditch is go with non oxygenated gas which I do have access to but it is expensive. Hope everyone else doesn't have this problem cause this is very annoying for a new ride.

Robb
 

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The fix is rather simple, but I'm sure it will raise all kinds of questions...

The MV service manual doesn't cover the procedure on the F3 models and I'm not sure why..?

What I believe is happening -

When the EVAP is removed you basically get rid of a controlled vacuum leak which causes the motor to run richer. Now, the argument is going to be - well, the O2 sensor should compensate. This, I don't understand, except that maybe the A/F (air/fuel) ratio needed is outside the mapping parameters.

Also, as the motor breaks in, it tightens up causing it to run more efficeintly. You get less blow by the rings (less air). Typically, when a motor runs more efficently and compression rises, it requires less fuel at idle. Again, you would expect the O2 sensor to compensate, and again, I'm not sure why it doesn't.

The fix is old school - opening up the bleed air screws to compensate for the above reasons, and syncronizing the throttle bodies. Again, I'm kinda blown away why the MV service manual doesn't cover this procedure. I could understand why it doesn't if each cylinder had it's own O2 sensor and each throttle body had its own stepper motor (like newer BMW's), but it doesn't. Therefore, the cylinders will never by perfectly balanced unless you do it the old school way (sync sticks).

In checking my bleed air screws I found the #3 cylinder bleed air screw completely closed, which I found unusual. #1 and #2 bleed air screws were approximately 1/2 turn out.

I initially tried 1/2 turn out on #3 and sync'd #1 and #2 to it. My bike still stalled, but I could tell it was a lot better. I then tried 3/4 turn out on #3 and synced the others to it. This worked great, the bike feels like it did when new, if not better.

I spoke with my dealer who has checked some other 800 motor throttle bodies and found the same to be true as far as the #3 air bleed screw being closed or nearly closed. I'm not sure why this is, but apparently Mikuni delivers the throttle bodies to MV this way and has directed MV not to touch them. My guess is, Mikuni believes MV's injection system will correct the A/F ratio.

So, I would call #3 the "master" cylinder and sync #1 and #2 to it.

Realize that all motors are different, so depending on how bad your bike stalls would determine how far to turn out the #3 air screw.

My bike got worse and worse until at 600 miles it died every time I came to a stop or pulled the clutch in.

I now have 1000 miles on the bike and it runs great.

Also, my dealer hooked my bike up to the MV diagnotics computer over the weekend and found no faults.

One other reason I can see the problem occuring is, when you have the bike apart and watch the butterflies operate when the bike is running, you will see the butterflies completely close, then slightly open every time you snap the throttle. I think this is to bring the RPM's down quickly, but if you think about it, with no bleed air at idle, the injectors are still injecting fuel into the cylinders for that brief moment the butterflies are closed which could cause flooding/stalling. This makes sense if you watch this when your bike is apart.

Realize, that MV could change the mapping to fix the stalling issue by possibly not closing the butterflies as fast as described above.

They could also put out a service bulletin to open the bleed air screws and sync the throttle bodies as I've done.

Who knows what MV will do? This is the fix for now, for me.

Bottom line for me is, I probably won't go for an update if it becomes available as long as my bike continues to run as good as it does.

Good luck guys. This may be too technical for some, so I hope the dealers can help you out. I've been wrenching on bikes for over 30 years, so the fix makes perfect sense to me. I'm still a little miffed why the bleed air screws were nearly closed (never seen this before), except for maybe MV was relying on the controlled vacuum leak from the EVAP can on USA bikes....?
 
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