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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've posted several threads here regarding my back and forth experience looking to get a suitable map once I removed the cat. I started with a Microtec ECU and custom map - which worked great except it didn't support ABS so no speedo or trip info. It did post great dyno results though - 160 RHP. Went back to the base map to see if I could live with that - but couldn't - low speed throttle transitions were rough and while I could have lived with that I couldn't live with the huge flat spot at 5K. I know others are using the base OEM map with the Arrow pipe - but it didn't work for me.

I then considered a PCV or a Rexxer reflash and decided to try the Rexxer reflash. There isn't anyone here or close by that could do a custom map and reflash. First attempt was mixed - good ride-ability but I was getting a speed sensor error code. Sent ECU back to Rexxer. Second attempt fixed the speed sensor error and the the map seems to work well based on limited riding this week. Dyno results are about 146 RHP which is about where it was with the base map and the pipe - but torque is up 3-4 to 75 which is about where it was with the Microtec installed.

Low speed throttle response seems very smooth and the flat spot at 5K is gone. The only potential remaining issue is that A\F ratio above 7k seems lean (based on dyno testing) but it doesn't seem to effect ride-ability. I could try a PCV but this has been a time consuming PIA so I'll leave for that for another day to fix - right now I'm looking forward to enjoying the bike before the Summer is completely over. The new map now runs in open loop so that's another big advantage if I want to fiddle around some more.

Hopefully my experience is helpful to others with this model year bike and ABS. I'm not suggesting that a 'static' reflash is optimal either - dynamic tuning on the bike is the only truly effective way to get optimal results. If Chris at X Bikes can convince Microtec to support ABS I'd put that ECU back on my bike in a heartbeat.
 

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A few questions:

1) Any updates on your experience with the Rexxer tuning over the past month?

2) Did you buy the Rexxer User unit for $599?

3) Did you work with [email protected] for your maps and what was the initial cost?

4) Did you makes any changes to the map, other than fixing the speed sensor code, after the running it on the dyno?

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #3
See my responses to your questions below;;;

1) Any updates on your experience with the Rexxer tuning over the past month? My bike continues to run great - no issues.

2) Did you buy the Rexxer User unit for $599?
No - the connector on the Rexxer unit had a connector that wasn't compatible the connector on my '13 model year. Dave has offered to get the connector when it's available and build me a Rexxer Unit for my bike.

3) Did you work with [email protected] for your maps and what was the initial cost? Yes - I worked with Dave - the total cost was $399 - not including shipping back and forth a few times and 2 dyne runs - which ws probably another $300-400.

4) Did you makes any changes to the map, other than fixing the speed sensor code, after the running it on the dyne? After the first dyne run Dave made changes to correct some lean fueling over 5K.

What model/year bike do you have? What part of the world are you in?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Currently in Northern California.

I have a 2007 F4 with ~400 miles.
The reason I asked which bike you have is that depending the on your ECU you will have different and possibly better options than I did. I have the Marinelli 5SM - not sure what you have in your '07 F4 but it's likely not the same which means my experience may be of limited value to you.

Donsy?
 

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The '07 F4...all models...uses the Magnat Marinelli 5SM ECU.
 

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I have the MM 5SM.

OP, did you ship the ECU to [email protected] to flash a map, receive the ECU back, run it on the dyne, then ship it back with A/F data to update the map, flash it, and ship it back?

There are 2 tuning shops in the Bay Area with MV experience (Desmoto and FactoryPro), but both have used Rexxer and now neither do as they've both had problems with Dave and don't want to invest in using it. I have a local performance shop (Pasta Performance) that's willing to flash the ECU for me, but he doesn't make any custom maps, meaning I'll have to work with Dave to customize it, and he doesn't have a dyno, so I'll have to use another local shop that does.

I want to use the Rexxer because the Microtec appears overpriced ($300-400 vs. $1,000-1,400).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I have the MM 5SM.

OP, did you ship the ECU to [email protected] to flash a map, receive the ECU back, run it on the dyne, then ship it back with A/F data to update the map, flash it, and ship it back?

There are 2 tuning shops in the Bay Area with MV experience (Desmoto and FactoryPro), but both have used Rexxer and now neither do as they've both had problems with Dave and don't want to invest in using it. I have a local performance shop (Pasta Performance) that's willing to flash the ECU for me, but he doesn't make any custom maps, meaning I'll have to work with Dave to customize it, and he doesn't have a dyno, so I'll have to find another shop that does.
Let's talk live - 720 839 5899
 

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I want to use the Rexxer because the Microtec appears overpriced ($300-400 vs. $1,000-1,400).
That isn't an apples-to-apples comparison. The cost of dyno runs will bring the "rexxer" tuning price MUCH closer to the Microtec solution, especially if you want to do part throttle runs every time, say 20,40, and 60%, and not just WOT.

And even then it'll still not compare directly, because with a Microtec the tuning is done in real-time for both fuel and ignition timing; the only way in fact to tune ignition advance properly and in any way cost-effectively.

Microtec with Chris's (of X-Bikes) map to start, further custom-tuned by Marc Salvisberg, will be the cream of the crop solution. I know Marc, and he has tuned two of my bikes in the past, with phenomenal results. This is the way my 1090RR will be tuned when I finally pull the trigger.

All this said, if you plan on minimizing the expense, even a "canned" map from Redline can be a vast improvement over stock. I did deal with Dave and did use a Rexxer on one of my other bikes, and while we had some misunderstandings and certain difference in views and opinions, ultimately he is helpful, knows his stuff, and will get you a good "ballpark" map, even without a dyno run. That's about the only possible way it'll cost $300-$400.
 

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Yes, it is a direct, apples-to-apples comparison in pricing. Rexxer at $400 for a tuned ECU compares directly to Microtec at $1400 for a tuned ECU.

Dyno runs, on either product, will be an additional, variable, expense. Both solutions will cost more, because of more dyno time, to fine tune the maps (e.g. at partial throttle), and will vary depending on how fine tuned you want it. Therefore, the Rexxer solution is cheaper. This is because existing hardware is being reused versus purchasing new hardware (i.e. a new ECU).

To recap, Rexxer = $400+dyno and Microtec = $1,400+dyno.

In addition, Rexxer is capable of tuning "in real-time for both fuel and ignition timing" like the Microtec ECU, according to the Rexxer website (rexxer.com>support>learn more>ECM Titanium). Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be as many performance shops in the US willing to adopt Rexxer for tuning as the business model requires upfront investment on the part of professionals even though Rexxer isn't as well known in the US and therefore demand isn't very high, hence why Marc doesn't want to invest in it as he views the risk as too high for the potential return.

If you're in the Bay Area and have an MV, your best chance of getting the best possible tune is by using a Microtec ECU and tuning at FactoryPro. That being said, a Rexxer tune will get you quite close, and if you can find a tuner that has the Rexxer compatible tuning software, then you'll have the potential to get just as good of a tune as using the microtec unit, but will save $1,000 by not purchasing a new ECU.

Most people in the US, like myself and Multipass, will have to work with a tuner back east (Dave at Redline) and a nearby shop with a dyno to make any adjustments to the initial Rexxer maps. This will never be as good as a tuner with a dyno who is able to sit there and play with it all day as Marc, and many other tuners, are able to.

I don't plan to track the my bike and don't want it to be a money sink either, so for me the Rexxer solution offers the best ROI, even without a dyno tuner with the Rexxer tuning software.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
As the OP I'm glad I've been able to provoke a discussion that may be helpful to others. What I found is that there are no easy answers here and everyone's expectations are different. I remain surprised that some could live with the stock ECU after removing the cat - but apparently their bikes ran fine for them.

There's also a law of diminished return at work here - for me - the Rexxer map is 'close enough' and gets me 90% of the way there. Was an extra $1000 to get the remaining 10% with the Microtec going to be worth it - no, not for me. Remember, if you buy a new 1090 and it has ABS you can't use the Microtec anyway.

Unfortunately, neither my Microtec nor my Rexxer experience was straightforward - part of the reason is because these bikes are made in such small numbers - the knowledge base and experience on a given model and year can be very very constrained.

Another thing to consider is that if you really - and I mean REALLY - want to get the most out of the Microtec you should plan on a day long dyno session. Because a Rexxer reflash is basically a 'static' tune more dyno time is irrelevant. So, correct - not apples to apples but now we're talking closer to $1500 compared to the Rexxer. I don't have an axe to grind here - I wish the Microtec had worked on my bike - but on the other hand I'm glad Rexxer was an option because my only other practical choice was to put the cat back on.

It's a complex topic and I've now spoken live to several forum members to share my experience because posts and email can't cover all of the nuances - I'm happy to help (and return the favors paid by other forum members to me on other topics).
 

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ECU tunig is probably one of the most complex things to undertake. Even if you have all the right equipment, all the knowledge, all the experience and all the time, there are still variables that cannot be predicted. Each tune is a stand-alone item because no two bikes are identical nor do they reside in the same conditions. My 312R tune will not meet the needs of your 312R.

The best advise is to schedule a dyno session with a guy who has the capabilities to tune your ECU in your situation. That takes time and money.,
 

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Hello Multipass
I have a rexxer map and also Speedo issues, can you tell me what sort of issues you were having with your speedo please
Thank you
Clay
 
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