MV Agusta Forum banner

1 - 20 of 54 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Currently i've got a HP Corse full system on my 2012 RR and running the MV Race ECU but im not entirely happy with how the bike is running. I know the race ECU isnt a great unit (which i was told after buying it) so now im looking at getting a PCV hoping that the bike will feel a little better and if need be get a tune done.

Now, do i totally ditch the race ECU or do i keep it and double up with a PCV? little undecided.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,447 Posts
The "race" ECU is the same ECU you have with different mapping. I will be having one of these mapped here in the USA this June. Were I you, and I had the cash, I'd start with a Microtec from Chris at X-Bikes. Then I'd schedule some Dyno Time.

Read this: http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50743 and maybe wait for a bit. There may be programming very close to what you want soon.

I am not a fan of Power Commanders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Really don't have $1000+ to just drop on an ecu plus tuning but thanks For the link, I'll have a read and keep updated on it to see what happens.

Some don't like PC's but I've used them on previous bikes with great success, thought I'd try different this time and not too happy with how it feels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
Maybe ask the guys at trooper lus what they recommend. im planning doing pcv on mine soon but would br interested to see what the recommendations are
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,494 Posts
The race ecu is different as it disables the lambda sensor, so you then can dyno tune the first 20 percent of the throttle,in other words you can dyno tune all the way from 0 to 100 percent throttle .If you leave the original ecu in you will not be able to dyno tune that region,and yes you will have to get the pc5 and have it dyno tuned .

cheers eddy

ps:be aware, add the cost up and you might be better going for the Microtec,your call at the end of the day,both give you great results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,756 Posts
Currently i've got a HP Corse full system on my 2012 RR and running the MV Race ECU but im not entirely happy with how the bike is running. I know the race ECU isnt a great unit (which i was told after buying it) so now im looking at getting a PCV hoping that the bike will feel a little better and if need be get a tune done.

Now, do i totally ditch the race ECU or do i keep it and double up with a PCV? little undecided.

What you have to look at is value for money vs results desired.

So you've already bought fitted and are unhappy with the Race ECU, you're now looking at sorting that out so are thinking of a PCV plus dyno time which will be further $$$

The Microtecs aren't cheap i grant you but i know it'll transform your bike. I know that even with a base map supplied by me and possibly needing some dyno time your bike will be the best it has ever been and will only improve further.

Your main issues are not really fuel related, they are ignition related which can only be acccesed via a software hack (not perfected yet to my knowledge) or with a full access ECU (Microtec). A PCV is fuel only and whilst it'll help it's not working in the area that is causing the problems.

Other area's that Microtec allows access to is the traction control maps. Not only the trigger points per gear and RPM but also what each setting from 1-8 delivers.

You can also plug a quick shifter straight in to the bike with no further modification and the ECU will run it etc etc etc.

Like i said not the cehapest unit but price up the cost of getting all of that access and all of those features via other means and it's amazing value for money. Also being based in Sydney i have dyno's centres that i have worked with and know who can handle mapping for you.

:)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,447 Posts
The race ecu is different as it disables the lambda sensor, so you then can dyno tune the first 20 percent of the throttle,in other words you can dyno tune all the way from 0 to 100 percent throttle .If you leave the original ecu in you will not be able to dyno tune that region,and yes you will have to get the pc5 and have it dyno tuned .

cheers eddy

ps:be aware, add the cost up and you might be better going for the Microtec,your call at the end of the day,both give you great results.

Eddy, yes, you can tune that area and switch off the labmda sensor in the stock ECU...it is simply a 5SM or 7Bm or 1.6M unit.

This has been done on my '08 F4 312R
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,494 Posts
I agree,so do we send you the ecu and then get it back,like I have said before the ecu is very similiar to a computer bios,but you need the tools to get inside it ?.you no what I mean.Devil rr is in sydney,Now ,the way I see it mv should realease its software and make the correct leads available so we can totally stuff up our mv's .lol.

I understand it is not rocket science,but unfortunently we are miles away.and there is very little over here.Thats why it would be easier for us just to buy a race ecu,but if you can offer this service at a reasonable price and return rate,that would be great.
cheers eddy
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,447 Posts
The key comes from the Dyno Tune. If we have identical bikes, in identical atmospheric circumstances wit identical flow rates on our injectors, and identical valve tolerances, then perhaps, a map I have might work well for you.

The difficulty is that no two bikes are the same and what works on my bike may, or may not, work on yours. This is why, when you get a map-in-a-can from DynoJet or someone else, "they" recommend tuning on a Dyno...

I suppose it can be close, I'll leave that hanging for expert comment!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,494 Posts
Chuck, I understand what you are saying.but maybe I did not explain myself correctly,if you know of someone who can turn off the Lambda sensor on the stock ecu,that would be great for those people who just want to put a pc5 on there bikes and not pay big dollars for a race ecu,then have it dyno tuned,maybe chris from X bikes has a lot more knowledge on this angle.This is just a thought.as Mapping of the original ecu would be altered by the pc5 and dyno tune,just hypothetical talking here.
cheers eddy
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,447 Posts
I really have to defer to those that know how these things actually work. I am a neophyte trying to understand computer stuff. People have spent years figuring this out. Perhaps Chris or Doug or Rob or someone with real knowledge will chime in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,756 Posts
The key comes from the Dyno Tune. If we have identical bikes, in identical atmospheric circumstances wit identical flow rates on our injectors, and identical valve tolerances, then perhaps, a map I have might work well for you.

The difficulty is that no two bikes are the same and what works on my bike may, or may not, work on yours. This is why, when you get a map-in-a-can from DynoJet or someone else, "they" recommend tuning on a Dyno...

I suppose it can be close, I'll leave that hanging for expert comment!

Yeah sort of right but it depends on so many things.

Even my base maps can end up being way out on what essentialy are identically specced bikes but in entirely different environments. I found this outlast year when in Oz building maps from my own dyno written maps. Some were miles out in low throttle areas.

Also a lot of MV's vary wildly in where closed throttle is as they do not control idle with a screw or idler valve but by ignition timing. This means that i could fit a MIcrotec to a 1090 B4 here and set the TPS for idle. This is based on where the butterflies are which is then also setting the sensor point and then the voltage reading which the ECU reads and uses.


So as a working hypothesis we could have this situation.

So i could set the TPS on Bike A at a rock solid 1250rpm. the TPS settign is 2.3 degree's. All my maps are built form 2.3 degrees so once you set the TPS all other maps and throttle position cells now line up.

You have an ignition reading of 1deg adv at idle.

However you get an identical bike in and install another ECU and install the base map from the identical bike you mapped the day before.

You set the TPS and start the engine. The bike idles at 3krpm but everything is set as it was the last time so what has changed?

Basically the butterfly valves are in a totally different place so whilst the TPS reading may now be set to 2.3 the actual position is further open. As there is no manual control of the butterflies you need to bring the idle down with ign timing.

None of this is an issue for idle in itself however this also has a knock on effect for every other throttle position after idle.

So lets assume that Bike A idled at 1250 rpm and the butterflies were actually at 2.3 degree's open.

Bike B idles at 3000rpm but the butterflies are set and paint locked to 3.5 degree's. To get the idle down you retard the ignition from 1 deg to -12deg adv.

Every single throttle position from that point on will show slightly more power than Bike A and require different mapping due to higher airflow/fuel demands than Bike A.

The only absolute is full throttle. Everythign else is dictated to by the idle and TPS setting.

Now with a PCV or PCIII this won't be a massive problem as they only offer 3 points of adjustemnt between idle at 10% throttle. Microtec and probably this ECU hack will show somewhere around 7 or 8 seperate throttle positions.

But the more cells you have the greater the precision and the smoother the interpolation from cell to cell.


:)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,447 Posts
Thanks for that, Chris! Complicated and tedious work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,756 Posts
They will Chuck

Then again they might not:stickpoke











Only joking. In theory if you switch off the Lambda sensor then yes the point of buying a race ECU is removed and as i rarely saw any difference at all between a std ECU and MV Race ECU this woul dbe a good thing and save money.

However what also needs to be factored in is this.

On the new generation MV's that have mutliple map choice the PCV or PCIII map willonly be 100% as it's meant ot be on whatever map you have switched to.

So say on the 1090 you have it in Normal and then fit the PCV and map it and the bike runs sweet as a nut but one day you switch to Sport mode which has a different ign curve and different fuel base map you'll suddenly be putting random corrections over the top of things. So you need to decide what map the bike is going to spend the rest of its life in to make sure that the fuel mapping stays as you've paid for on a dyno.............................which then begs the question, why buy a bike with multiple map chpoice if you're going to fit a device that essentially only properly works on one of those choices.

I know that on the PCV you can store two maps but that'll also add to the dyno time and you'll have to make sure that both ECU and PCV get switched over at the same time.

This is even worse when looking at something like the F3 that has 3 maps to choose from as well as a custom one that could be utilising the sport masp as the fuel map but with reduced throttle response etc.

Bikes are getting more sophisticated and the tuning aids needed to get good results are going to have to move with them.

none of this is major arse ache i agree but it potentially could quickly end up costing a bit of dough for people in trying to cover all potnetial options and issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,756 Posts
Thanks for that, Chris! Complicated and tedious work.

True but once you understand what is going wrong it's simple to put right and you learn quite quickly where to go looking for problems and where to spend the time.

The results are worth it though in my experience. :)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,447 Posts
The results are very much worth it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
There's only one dyno place in my area and I've had my zx10 with pc dynoed which turned out alright.I'm wondering of there is any extra skills necessary to map the micro tech.I have a race ecu ordered but I'm now considering sending it back and getting the microtech

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Motorcycle.com Free App
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,756 Posts
There's only one dyno place in my area and I've had my zx10 with pc dynoed which turned out alright.I'm wondering of there is any extra skills necessary to map the micro tech.I have a race ecu ordered but I'm now considering sending it back and getting the microtech

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Motorcycle.com Free App
It depends on where you are in the world mate.

They aren't difficult to map but I do make myself available for dyno operaters to ask questions. Generally speaking those that do get good results and happy customers, those who don't usually end up having issues as they try to figure it all out for themselves.

At first glance the software and potential tuning looks very daunting but on the whole I take care of pretty much all of the major stuff with my base maps here.

However the base map supplied on the disc with a microtec is worse than standard, I supply them with my own base maps which do leap frog many many painful hours on a dyno.

If you have any questions then please feel free to pm me etc.

:)
 
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
Top