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Old Wing Nut
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Do not fret the transmission R&R... it is really fairly simple. You do NOT need the special fixture to mount the transmission into unless you plan to totally overhaul it and re-shim clearances.
I pulled my F4 transmission to install the GP pattern shift drum...no special tools used that aren't readily available and used on many brands of bikes (clutch hub holder for torqueing the hub nut as example).
Just dive in....we will help you.
 
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Do not fret the transmission R&R... it is really fairly simple. You do NOT need the special fixture to mount the transmission into unless you plan to totally overhaul it and re-shim clearances.
I pulled my F4 transmission to install the GP patter shift drum...no special tools used that aren't readily available and used on many brands of bikes (clutch hub holder for torqueing the hub nut as example).
Just dive in....we will help you.
I so should have bought that drum before you 馃槃
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Do not fret the transmission R&R... it is really fairly simple. You do NOT need the special fixture to mount the transmission into unless you plan to totally overhaul it and re-shim clearances.
I pulled my F4 transmission to install the GP pattern shift drum...no special tools used that aren't readily available and used on many brands of bikes (clutch hub holder for torqueing the hub nut as example).
Just dive in....we will help you.
What I'm most worried about is that bearing. The manual doesn't talk about it at all, but it sure looks like it'd need to be removed to get the seal out, and then pressed back into the case. I don't have a press or a bearing puller. I'm not against buying tools, for sure, buying tools I'll only use once seems to be a bit of a hobby for me. lol I just don't know that I can convince the Wife to swing buying a bench press tool, a bearing puller, and possibly a new bearing just to replace a $10 oil seal. lol
 

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It is not a press fit. Common size bearing as well.
 
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
So I got the Oberon slave installed, and after a few dozen miles I'm still having the leak. Looks like it's time to pull the transmission. So I guess I have a few questions I'm hoping you guys could answer off the bat:

1. I'll need to buy the oil seal that's been circled in a few of the diagrams posted in here, as well as new gaskets for both the clutch cover and transmission cover, and new lock tab washers for the countershaft sprocket and clutch hub, and new oil. And probably a new tube of RSV since mine's super old. Does that sound like a complete BOM, at least until I start breaking things? 馃槄

2. The service manual is a little light on transmission extraction, and assumes you have their fixing bracket and a ton of experience. Once you get the clutch assembly out, and the transmission cover screws out, and start tapping the primary shaft out from the clutch side, are the shafts set into the cover enough that you can pull from the cover side to remove the transmission without risking the shafts unseating from the cover? Or do you need to tap from the clutch side with some type of punch until the whole transmission comes free?

3. Once it's free, I'm assuming the primary shaft is held together with circlips and I can just set the transmission vertically cover-down on my bench and pull the shaft up and out from the bearing and set it down on my bench and don't really have to worry about breaking anything or messing up the gearset? Any special technique needed to get the shaft out of the bearing?

4. Once the shaft is out, do I need any special tool to extract the bearing to get to the seal? And should I replace the bearing with a new one when re-fitting?

5. When putting back together, do I just slide the primary shaft back into the bearing and make sure the gears mesh with the secondary, then slide the transmission back into place, and tap it home with a rubber mallet or something? Anything else I need to worry about?

While I'm in there, anything else I should replace or upgrade since I already have it all apart? Within reason... Wife already says this thing has been a moneypit over the last decade or so, so she probably wouldn't spring for an STM slipper clutch. :ROFLMAO:
 

Old Wing Nut
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You probably do not need the gearcase gasket. It is a rubber o-ring. You can probably reuse the locking washers. The have ample surface to bend a new flat. Some would say discard the clutch gasket as well and just use sealant. Ducati and Honda do not use gaskets on many of their bike's clutch covers.
You do not need the holding fixture unless you want to test shift out of the bike or do shim changes (you won't).
The trans will come out as a piece pretty easily. You will be taking it apart to get the bearing and seal out.
Pay attention to what is where so you can put it back together. It's really quite simple.
An inside bearing puller will get the bearing out easily. You can likely borrow one. Seal requires no special tools. You can push the bearing back in with a matching OD socket and a hammer. Heat is your friend in both directions. I use a MAP gas torch
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
You probably do not need the gearcase gasket. It is a rubber o-ring. You can probably reuse the locking washers. The have ample surface to bend a new flat. Some would say discard the clutch gasket as well and just use sealant. Ducati and Honda do not use gaskets on many of their bike's clutch covers.
You do not need the holding fixture unless you want to test shift out of the bike or do shim changes (you won't).
The trans will come out as a piece pretty easily. You will be taking it apart to get the bearing and seal out.
Pay attention to what is where so you can put it back together. It's really quite simple.
An inside bearing puller will get the bearing out easily. You can likely borrow one. Seal requires no special tools. You can push the bearing back in with a matching OD socket and a hammer. Heat is your friend in both directions. I use a MAP gas torch
Thanks! No issues putting the old bearing back in rather than replacing it? Pulling it doesn't risk damaging it at all?

As for disassembling the transmission to get the seal out...is it pretty straight-forward? I'm guessing I can't just grab the primary shaft with the gearsets on it and just lift it up out of the bearing? We're talking about pulling circlips and removing gears one at a time until the shaft is bare, then pulling it out? Any tool needed to pull the shaft out of the bearing or should I be able to just lift it out once the gears are clear?
 

Old Wing Nut
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Your will remove both shafts as well as the shift forks. Do not disassemble the shaft. Do not remove circlips.
When you have it in your hands you will see what to do.
Pulling the bearing may well damage it. I would suggest replacing it. It is a common bearing. You don't have to buy it from MV Agusta. You will need an inside bearing puller. I wouldn't buy one. Take the transmission plate, sans shafts etc, to a friendly mechanic in your neighborhood. Most shops, bike or car, will have a puller.
When I did my GP shift drum I did not remove the transmission main shaft so I have no photo to show you of what that looks like. I do have photos of the process though and will attach them here.
The most fiddly part was reassembling the shifting mechanism. I had to do that to replace the drum. You can avoid that just pulling the shafts and bearing leaving the drum and shift mechanism in place.

Here's some photos:
About to pull the transmission out
Motor vehicle Automotive design Automotive fuel system Auto part Metal


Main shaft departing the engine cases
Automotive tire Automotive lighting Automotive design Motor vehicle Rim


Transmission on the bench
Gas Gear Automotive tire Auto part Metal


Another view
Machine Metal Household appliance accessory Gun turret Engineering


The transmission cavity in the crankcases
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive wheel system Rim Automotive design


The clutch end of the pushrod that eats seals if withdrawn the wrong direction
Brown Wood Tints and shades Metal Automotive exterior


About to remove the shift linkage
Auto part Machine Metal Art Bicycle part


What's under that cover
Crankset Gear Bicycle part Silver Font


I had to take all that apart to get the drum out...you don't !!
Just take the shift fork shafts out to disengage them from the gears so you can remove the shafts. Leave the drum and shift mechanism alone if you can.
Wheel Automotive tire Font Motor vehicle Tool


The drum comes out through the shift mechanism compartment
Automotive tire Gas Gear Auto part Machine


Good luck !!
 

Old Wing Nut
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@EBBO , here are a few more photos detailing exchange of the shift drum.
This is the fiddly bits of the shifter that can be a lot of fun to get into place.
This is what is under the shift shaft itself.
Automotive tire Rim Bicycle part Automotive wheel system Motor vehicle


This shows the shift shaft on the bench...that hairpin spring on the shaft is the one that sometimes breaks, documented in many other posts. It's easy to replace.

Bicycle part Gear Crankset Rim Auto part


The shifter pawls with springs and plungers. Must be captured inside the guide plate. Lots of fun when oily. Like I said, fiddly...

Household hardware Bicycle part Gear Automotive wheel system Metal


This is the shift detent spring and roller...it is strong and requires a "touch" to get in position during reassembly.

Eyelash Grey Wood Audio equipment Font


This photio shows the 2 shift drums. The machined groove is the standard shift. No groove is the GP shift.

Wood Nickel Automotive tire Metal Household hardware


The bolt holding the detent and bearing onto the drum is loc-tited and has an internal hex. This is also the pin the shift spring (that breaks) centers on.

Household hardware Gas Auto part Circle Metal


This is the empty transmission shift mechanism cavity with the drum bearing reinstalled. Easier to remove the detent to remove the drum out the inside, leaving the bearing in place....I did not realize this going in, but I know now. All the work was the same except I wouldn't have had to remove the bearing from the case.

Automotive tire Bicycle part Locking hubs Wheel Rim


Shift detent reinstalled....I could have left this in place too, which would have been easier.

Bicycle part Rim Auto part Machine Circle


That detent spring is strong.
Automotive tire Bumper Automotive exterior Auto part Metal
 
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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
@esq'z me thank you so much for all these photos. So if I'm seeing this right, the shift forks (circled red below) just lift up out of their sockets (green below) until the hooks are disengaged from the gear teeth, then just come out, and that will free the primary and secondary shafts to be lifted up out of their bearings, then I pull the primary shaft bearing, swap out the seal, and tap in a new bearing? Easy peasy?

Light Automotive tire Electrical wiring Audio equipment Red


Sounds too simple for how complicated it looks. lol No worries about getting gears unsynchronized between primary/secondary shafts, drum, and forks? They just pull out then get put back in?

As for the primary shaft bearing, do you know off-hand what the common size and bearing type is? Do you have a recommended source that makes good quality stuff? I don't mind spending good money to get a good part, I just have no idea how to tell what's what. lol Oh, and the new bearing is just oil-lubricated from the sump, right? No prepwork for it?
 

Old Wing Nut
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Yes, you are right. Slide the Shift fork shafts out and the forks are free to come out too. Nothing to worry about with the shafts and gears. There is no synchronizing, etc.
There is no preparation needed for the bearing, just put it in and go.
I do not know the size off hand, but there will be size markings on the outer race. Contact your local bearing supply house. Look for a European or Japanese made bearing with the same markings. Don't get a Chinese product and you will be fine. SKF, ***,and NSK are among the best.
Here is some reading for you:
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Yes, you are right. Slide the Shift fork shafts out and the forks are free to come out too. Nothing to worry about with the shafts and gears. There is no synchronizing, etc.
There is no preparation needed for the bearing, just put it in and go.
I do not know the size off hand, but there will be size markings on the outer race. Contact your local bearing supply house. Look for a European or Japanese made bearing with the same markings. Don't get a Chinese product and you will be fine. SKF, ***,and NSK are among the best.
Here is some reading for you:
Thanks!

Another question...so I found a listing for the OE MV primary shaft bearing on Ebay with OEM packaging that lists it as a d24-d40-sp17...that's 24mm ID, 40mm OD, 17mm depth, correct? Because I found a different listing for the OE MV oil seal for the pushrod that's listed as 8-16-6...so it looks to me like the oil seal might have an OD of 16mm, and the bearing above it an ID of 24mm, which would mean I should be able to just hook the bad seal and pull it out through the ID of the bearing, then slide the new one into place using a ~10-12mm deep well socket as a pusher and not even have to pull the bearing...am I reading these sizes right? That'd make this whole thing a ton easier. lol
 

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That's a good question....and I don't know the answer, having not removed the transmission shafts in my exploration.
Open it up and let us know...
 
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I found the oil seal easy enough. Bought a couple different depths as the info I was getting was a bit uncertain. Trying to find the case cover gaskets, as I'd really like to keep them in use, and would like to replace the pushrod itself. Mine has a bit of a machining snag by the oil channels that's likely the cause of the leak. You can't really see it but you can feel it. Also want to find these parts somewhere that doesn't charge $75 US for shipping. lol So anyway, it'll probably be a few weeks until I have everything assembled, but I'll update this when I get started on it. I really appreciate all the help so far. Thanks guys!
 

Old Wing Nut
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Clutch cover gasket is available from MV...the transmission case and shifter cover are o-rings...also available from MV. Common parts for all first gen bikes.
The oil grooves should never go through the seal....always coming out to the clutch side. If you really want to you could just smooth it with a bit of emery clothe.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Clutch cover gasket is available from MV...the transmission case and shifter cover are o-rings...also available from MV. Common parts for all first gen bikes.
The oil grooves should never go through the seal....always coming out to the clutch side. If you really want to you could just smooth it with a bit of emery clothe.....
The clutch side is on backorder everywhere I've looked, just trying to find someone with it in stock. But I'm used to that by now. lol I'll find it eventually. :)
 

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Last time I ordered a clutch cover gasket it came in less than 2 weeks, but it seems no one in the USA stocks them.
Or, like @EBBO said....make your own.
Buy a sheet of gasket material, set the cover on it it and whack it with a rubber mallet to make an imprint, then use a very sharp exacto knife and cut it out.
 
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