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As the heading implies. Basically I want to paint the spare frame I have before re-assembling the bike for next years race season.
So all the Ade and Chuck and Lee and other paint guys out there, time to supply some tips to a bloke who know squat about painting.
I have compressor and spray gun etc.
1st question, how do I get the old paint off the frame, I was told to do it chemically as these frame's don't like blasting, also it will be cheaper.
2nd question, what type of primer and paint do I use.
3rd question, is there a way to do it without having to add a clear coat also.

Thanks for you help in advance guys.
 

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I would not take of the factory paint, normally it is the best sticking due to proces being applied, get the new paint stick to the old one by mildly sanding and degrease.
I would agree with just using sandpaper. I would use some 240 grit paper and just score it all over so that the paint goes dull. A good way to judge to see if its all off is to see if you can see any shiny bits anywhere. The new paint wont adhere to those parts as well as the duller/matter looking parts. There is no point in trying to chemically remove it all.
You will then want to use some degreaser, its best to wear gloves as your skin is oily/greasy and will leave finger prints on the frame anywhere you touch it, trying hanging the frame up, preferably against a wall which you dont mind getting spray paint on. Ideally you will want to be able to turn rotate it whilst painting, so perhaps a wire coat hanger hanging from a stand of some sort.

I will get the details of the primer and paint that the factory use, i have the PPG paint code machine at home and it will be listed in there.

What sort of gun do you have? Gravity fed?
 

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If the finish in the frame isn't to beat up i like the suggestion to scuff and apply color. If doing this you can save yourself a bunch of time and hassle with stripping and should be able skip the primer coat if applying to a good scuffed color coat.

......is the oem frame painted for powder coated?.........


If you want to strip(paint or powder coat) try 'aircrafter stripper' Never use stuff in the spray cans. The gel will work the best for application and being able to sit still and do its work. You most surely will need gloves, a well ventilated place; face mask, hat, and long sleeves are suggested. Apply with paint brush...foam ones will only last a few minutes before becoming mush bit do apply the gel much better than bristle brushes. Allow product to do its magic then come back to wipe off when all is bubbled up. Dispose of soiled paper towels properly and then wash down frame with soapy water. Will want to dry off immediately and keep out of moisture and elements as much as possible before getting primer on it. Powder coats may take more applications than paint, but aircraft stripper will get the job done. PS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't bother with the paint stripper crap found in hardware stores. You will just be throwing your money away. Pulling cheap paint off old wood...sure it may eventually work but that's about all its good for.

Yes, you can apply a 1 stage paint which has the base and clear already mixed together. Not sure if you can find the color you want in industrial paints but find a line of one stage paints used to coat industrial machinery and that should be really durable.
 

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mine has been bead blasted+primed+refinished with oem ppg 473101(gravity-fed gun). cured in an [email protected] 90Celsius for 2hrs. the problem with simple sanding is that u not gonna be able to reach certain parts of the frame+ the seams and the primer won't stick properly to the surface. i bet this is how it's made in the factory..
u can use aircraft paint remover, too(effin' messy;)): http://www.johnsonautobodysupply.com/Aircraft-Paint-Remover.html
If i recall correctly the oem red paint is not water-based, thus it needs no clear..

cheers
 

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Donsy,

Do not use any sort of chemical stripper as you'll never be able to get it cleaned off in the nooks and crannys and it'll raise hell when you go to paint.

If the surface is in good shape (no rust or corrosion) I would wash the frame off with Tide laundry detergent, taping or sealing any openings in the frame to minimize water entry and blow it dry paying particular attention to all the joints and little areas where water will collect. Use tooth brushes or whatever to get into the hard to reach spots. Once it's been washed clean and dried put it out in the sun for awhile to dry whatever's left.

Then you want to wash it down with a good wax/grease remover just like you did with the Tide and dry it off again. The reason for all this cleaning is that a clean surface is the MOST important step of it all as anything left on the frame will cause the paint to not bind to the surface. Any wax/grease left on there will also get "worked" into the existing paint when you sand/scuff for a seal coat.

If you have any rust/corrosion anywhere you'll need to get rid of it. I use a product called "Metal Prep". It has phosphoric acid in it which will remove the rust/corrosion. Use red scuff pads to scrub the spots and rinse it off with water. There are several different brands out there with phosphoric.

So now it's nice and clean. The entire surface has to be sanded/scuffed with paper or a scuff pad until there are no shiny spots and it's a uniform dull flat finish. This is to give the surface "tooth" to help the new paint adhere. I use a paste in a tube called "scuff and clean" (you could also use Roo piss if you can collect enough :laughing:) and scrub the surface with it using a grey scuff pad. Super good stuff and rinses off with water. You don't have to do that though if you're thorough with just a pad. Pads are better than paper as they conform to the surface and get into the tight spots. Don't worry if you go through the paint to the metal.

Then blow it off and give it a final wipe down with prepsol or whatever. At this point it's ready to paint. Do not touch it with your bare hands again and wear viton gloves (the paint and solvents won't disintigrate them like it does latex ones) to keep anything on your hands from contaminating the surface.

You want to put a "seal" coat of primer on first to prevent "bleed" through and give the topcoat a better bond. Follow the instructions on the can to the letter. Primer is usually applied in a 4-1-1 ratio and sealer 4-2-1, the difference being in the amount of reducer you add. 4 primer, 2 reducer and 1 catalyst. Both the primer and the topcoat are a chemical bond, not an air dry. Once the seal coat has done what's called "flash off" or dry to the touch (you'll see it go from shiny wet to flat dry) you can shoot the top coat right over it. I would put on enough to cover, maybe two coats and no more than three. You don't want alot of build. UNLESS the surface isn't even and smooth in which case you'll want to go the primer route and sand it smooth.

Being that it's a frame and not a tank or fairings I would use a single stage urethane. It's a catalyzed top coat which holds up well, has excellent gloss and eliminates the base coat/clearcoat step. It is not as hard a finish as base/clear but is fine for a frame. I happen to like PPG "Concept" but there are other brands that will do the same thing. I'm just used to working with it and every paint has it's own quirks and learning curve. Concept will cure over night and can be rubbed out if need be.

I use an HVLP gun made by Devilbiss. It's gravity feed. Vastly superior to the old suction fed guns and has very little overspray. It'll lay down a coat that is glass. Which brings up another point. Breeze and bugs. You need to paint when the air's still and the bugs aren't out. Early in morning is the best time as long as the temp is OK. Best of all is to use a spray booth if you find one to use. Next best is to make one out of clear plastic sheets with a furnace filter in it and a window fan. Short of that do it in your garage and keep in mind that the overspray is going to get all over everything. Sometimes it'll dry by the time it hits and you can blow/wipe it off but to be safe get everything you don't want it on out of there. Also sweep the floor and hose it off. I sometimes will wet the floor before I paint to minimize dust. Also keeps the overspray from sticking to it.

I strongly recommend you practice with your gun and the paint to get familiar with the settings on flow, fan width and distance from the piece. And if you screw it up it'll sand off and you can go at it again. After all it's just a bike. Says he.

Frames are one of the most difficult things to paint as you have to deal with overspray geting on the surface you've just painted. You have to move pretty fast and keep the surface "wet". Best to hang the frame at a level where you can get to it all around without having to be a contortionist and work from one end toward the other so that you're laying paint on the overspray and not the other way 'round.

Hope this helps mate. My head hurts.:laughing::laughing::laughing.

Don't know what color you're painting it but if it's red PPG has a color in Concept called "Torino Red" which is a dead nuts match to Duc red and very close to MV red.
 

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Matter a fact mate if I were younger I'd think about it the way this country's headed.

Any other ? don't hesitate.
 

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Hey Donsy
Why don’t you powder coat the frame. Much more durable and less susceptible to scratches when you put the thing back together
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hhhmm

Hey Donsy
Why don’t you powder coat the frame. Much more durable and less susceptible to scratches when you put the thing back together
I would love to hear the pro's and con's between the two Olly, including the cost's of coarse, although I want the bike to be really nice for next year, financially we are probably worse of than ever before. So if it's going to cost too much then black and scratched it will be.
BTW, did you get your seat thingy yet ?
 

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Just returned from an un-expected trip to the republic, seat was waiting here for me when I got back, thanks.
Dont know the costs of the two, but remembr doing it years ago, sand blast, then powder coat.
Good luck
 

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Dons, what Lee said is spot on. Clean, Clean, CLEAN BEFORE sanding/scuffing or, as Lee said, you'll simply inject the impurities into the paint substrate...and there will be hell to pay. If the current frame paint is sound and factory applied, you can get away with cleaning, scuffing, and then painting...as long as you don't scuff through to bare metal. (That would would require metal prep, primer, then paint.) A color change requires the sealer coat to prevent the aforementioned "bleed through".

Lee's advice is the best explaination I've seenin writing...I was unaware that he could write.:smoking:
 

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I can't. Ade wrote that for me, and I posted it. In fact everything you see on here from me is actually done by Patty and the Bluefish.

ROTFLMAO.
 

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That is one smart PUP-o-mundo! (I knew he was the brains of that operation...) Patty is obviously the beauty.
 

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Donsy,just an imput from me,trash it if its useless information,when I raced Go Karts for 8 years all my chassis were chrome moly (same material as MV frames I believe),when the chassis needed painting I just had them sand blasted and powder coated,cost around $200.00 for the chassis and used to last around 2 years,whereas the bike frame is more protected so would last much longer.The only dissadvantage I found with powder coating is the surface is quite brittle and chips easily,but the advantage I found was the coating is very even and no runs whatsoever,good luck,Mitch.
 

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no no!

DO NOT SAND BLAST CHROMOLY FRAMES......ask any competent metallurgist:wtf:
 

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For the bikes I've built--- I always powder coat the frames---

That said--- I have one time and one time only tried to re powder coat a frame --- in that experience (which is not to save everyone else's experience) they had to apply much more powder coat over the old surface which altered the thickness of the frame in subtle but important ways causing refitting parts to be a fricken nightmare.

Paint is easy- thin- and per the guidance offered before doesn't require anywhere near the effort to prep.

I'd paint it.
 

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I have had frames powder coated in the past. I wouldn't do it again. I'd apply paint as close to the manufacturer's finish as possible.
If you put two frames side by side ; one powder coated and the other painted you'd see the difference.

joe
 

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Fer shur Joe. Powder coat can't compare to paint when it comes to gloss.
 
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