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Discussion Starter #1
I am relatively new here and not yet totally familiar with F4's. But an engine is an engine and they all operate under the same conditions. From reading the thread it would appear that the F4 has a bit of a problem with running hot though I can't confirm this as I haven't ridden my bike yet. Pa. Cold. I'm old. The thread on a modified water pump impeller is interesting and appears to lower the coolant temp somewhat by speeding up the coolant flow. However there is a limit as to how fast the coolant can flow as it needs a certain amount of "dwell" time in the radiator to extract the max amount of heat. I am thinking that the overheating is more due to insufficient radiator area than flow speed. I also wonder about the thermostat's opening temp. Does anyone know what it is? It is my feeling that a solution would be to increase rad area. The only way I can see to do this would to be to install a thicker rad or add an additional smaller rad in front of the existing one. Which would involve mounting and plumbing issues that are easily overcome. I also wonder if a lower opening temp thermostat wouldn't help as well. Any comments or feelings on this?

Lee
 

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I think you are right on here. I have always felt that it is strange that the bike temp will run up to 220f when sitting in traffic and then back down to 168 when moving. That sounds like a thermostat problem to me and in car world it is. Everyone says these bikes don't work that way. I would like to mess around with thermostats first and see what happens.

Full disclosure: I have only had one extremely high temp occurance, so it is not a huge issue for me.

CAG
 

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Fans cut in at 100C though mine sometimes seem to cut in a little earlier, just in case you haven't seen the overheating thread...give this a read

http://mvagusta.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10410

and check on page 15 for quote/post from yours truly that I took from another thread that a new member (Tuna) had posted. He fully resolved the over-heating issue but spent quite a bit of money and effort doing it...It really just depends what you need to do.

I rarely commute on my bike and oddly enough the heating only became a bit of an issue for me after my last service but if this impellar mod can give me a 5C drop in temp then that would be good enough for me and if it would give me closer to 10C I'm pretty sure I would be able to commute happily in summer also. The R and 312 seem to run a bit hotter than the S so I can't speak for them but if I remeber correctly after all the mods Tuna did I think he said the mod he wouldn't do after the fact would have been the larger rad.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I did as you suggested and read up on the situation. Apparently that's not an oil cooler on the bottom but rather another rad. And it still heats up? It also seems that the problem is only prevalent at low speed or sitting still not at speed. So that eliminates adding more radiator area. It would appear that what's needed is more airflow through the rad beginning at a lower temp. The fan cut in temp is ridiculously high IMO and perhaps a combination of a larger fan which cuts in sooner and a coolant thermostat which opens sooner might do the trick. I haven't looked at the fans but if they're not shrouded around the perimeter of the blades they're really not going to be very efficient. I'll have to dig into this some more and see what I can come up with. Course it may not be a problem on mine but given all the noise over it I doubt that will be the case.

Lee
 

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Coolant temp is not really a good indicator of engine temp. Oil temperature would be more accurate, and is actually highly stable on MV's.
99.9% of people complaining of "overheating" report temp readouts still within safe ranges in their owner's manuals.

And "an engine is an engine", please.
 

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fazer6 said:
Coolant temp is not really a good indicator of engine temp. Oil temperature would be more accurate, and is actually highly stable on MV's.
99.9% of people complaining of "overheating" report temp readouts still within safe ranges in their owner's manuals.

And "an engine is an engine", please.

+ 1

bc
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I am aware of the fact that coolant temp is not a good indicator of engine temp and that oil temp gives a better picture, as it circulates through the heart of the engine. Perhaps that's why any decent high performance engine will run an oil cooler for not only does it help prevent oil breakdown at higher temps but also aids in cooling the engine. Particularly air cooled engines.

Just because the owner's manual states limits does not necessarily mean that it is in the best interests of the engine to allow it to reach or continuously operate at those limits.

As for "an engine is an engine" that was a poor choice of wording. Of course that statement is ridiculous and untrue. What I meant to say was that all four cycle engines operate in the same manner be it a P-51 or a lawnmower. It comes in, gets squeezed, ignites and expands, and exits. How those four things are played with is what makes the difference.

As for coolant temp I personally would prefer not to see it at the high end of said limits, and if I can do something to lower it into a more reasonable range then I believe it's worth pursuing.
Lee
 

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lee said:
I am aware of the fact that coolant temp is not a good indicator of engine temp and that oil temp gives a better picture, as it circulates through the heart of the engine. Perhaps that's why any decent high performance engine will run an oil cooler for not only does it help prevent oil breakdown at higher temps but also aids in cooling the engine.
Having a decent high performance engine, the F4 does indeed have an oil cooler; more accurately, an oil/coolant heat exchanger. It's to the right of the oil filter.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I know it does and never said it didn't. It does exactly what it's called. Exchanges heat. Between hot oil and hot coolant.
 

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For whatever reason, when the Brutale came out the 750 F4s recieved a lower radiator, and the Brutes got an oil cooler, presumably since they are the 'street' version of the F4.
 

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lee said:
I know it does and never said it didn't. It does exactly what it's called. Exchanges heat. Between hot oil and hot coolant.
I inferred from your statement that you thought the bike had no oil cooler. It does, just an oil/coolant rather than an oil/air one. Are there any high performance bikes that still use an oil/air one? There might be, but I don't think so. I think they mostly use oil/coolant because they are much more efficient.

Radiators, oil coolers (of both types), intercoolers, etc. are all heat exchangers.
 

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I suggested a while back that perhaps the ecu should be programmed to kick the fan on at a lower temp, its common practice on automotive engines that have had performance upgrades, but was told this is a silly idea. :)

I used to think my Brutale ran hot, then I spent some time in the saddle of my buddy's F4, and that bitch gets really hot, it was making me nervous. I have noticed that the Brute tends to hiccup and fart a bit when it gets really warm, but have yet to have it over heat and boil over as other members have.

Regardless, this is one of my less favorite characteristics the MV's possess, the argument over what is or isnt going to solve it is almost as annoying. :)
 

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Some Guy said:
I have noticed that the Brute tends to hiccup and fart a bit when it gets really warm, but have yet to have it over heat and boil over as other members have.
It's quite possible I've had my fat head stuck in the sand, but I haven't seen or heard of any instances of Brutales overheating (or having coolant overflow).

Having no fairing seems to keep the Brutes a lot cooler than the F4's, I've only seen over 102 celsius once in >10,000km, and I've never seen flashing digits (over 107?).
 

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There are a fair amount of posts on this site referring to CAT removal lowering operating temperatures....maybe the rad size was determined on an exhaust system without a CAT. I'm having mine removed although high running temps isn't exactly a problem here in the UK
Tont
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I believe the Ducati 1098 has an air/oil heat exchanger which is located in the same position as the lower radiator on the F4.
It is my desire to come to this Forum to learn and what better place than a gathering of experienced F4 owners which I am not yet. Apparently I have irritated some, and that was not my intent.

Lee
 

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lee said:
I believe the Ducati 1098 has an air/oil heat exchanger which is located in the same position as the lower radiator on the F4.
It is my desire to come to this Forum to learn and what better place than a gathering of experienced F4 owners which I am not yet. Apparently I have irritated some, and that was not my intent.

Lee
I'm not irritated, although perhaps I sounded that way. My apologies.

It's quite possible the 1098 has an air/oil cooler. I only did a spot check before responding by looking up the new Kawasaki ZX-10R on the web, and it lists a liquid-cooled oil cooler. The Ducati website doesn't seem to have that information readily available.

I spent some time talking to one of the MV Agusta reps at the motorcycle show yesterday, and the subject of heat came up. We talked about thermostats, fans, the temperature tha fans engage, fairings, etc. The conversation also included the head mechanic from the local dealer, with whom I have long experience. I'll be following up with him on a few topics, although with the cooler weather, I may not be able to get any conclusive data for a while.

Several years ago I was riding with a group of MVs and noticed that the Brutale 750 consistently ran hotter than the F4 750. More recently, I noted that the Brutale 910 seemed to run cooler than the 750 had, although I didn't have a 750 handy for comparison. The F4 1000S I had on vacation last year didn't alarm me with heating issues, while my 312 has on occasion. Not nearly so much now, as I put on the RG3 ECU and the weather cooler off. Since both happened about the same time, I can't isolate the cause.
 

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Lee, welcome, this subject has been talked about quite a a lot to say the least, have you done a search?

In a 'nutshell'

My 'R' is ALWAYS 10c hotter than my mates 'S' wherever/whenever we stop.
Ally fans (Muzzy) help a little,
removing the fairing mesh at the rear helps a little.
Pulling the rear of the fairing out (8mm ish) helps a little.
Water weter? not sure but probably helps a little.
Bigger pump impeller? Jury still out at the moment but probably as above (a little)
Heat wrap the headers? I've done that-it does help a little! and stops the fans getting burned from the headers
One thing that DOES cure mine is removing the fairings, it justs sits there fans cutting in and out.
My personal thoughts are all the above help-you've guessed it, a little! but the biggest difference I find is to run it without the fairings.
Ferracci's race bikes have a vent on the RH side, my opinion is you can do whatever you want with any/all of the above, but until you can let the air out of the fairing it's just going to run hot when stopped :)
 

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mikef4uk said:
Lee, welcome, this subject has been talked about quite a a lot to say the least, have you done a search?

In a 'nutshell'

[...]
I took my old race fairings and cut out a little piece to (sort of) match the openings in the CC fairings. That helped too, but I haven't replicated that on the original bodywork.

 

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I live in Sydney. I commute on the bike everyday and it gets pretty hot here, but I've never had over heating issues (I guess I'm one of the lucky ones).
Actually no issues at all other than the bike stalling when stopped at traffic lights every now and again...

I'm watching these threads with interest none the less...
 

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Welcome Wheeliebin

First off, do you ride an F4 or a Butale?

If its an F4, then you are one of the lucky ones.

Perth and Sydney share the same teperate zones and my F4 gets bloody hot.
At around 22c ambient temp, the bike gets to 110c at traffic lights, so I dont ride the bike in temps higher than that.

Safe riding and hope the bike stays cool for you.
 
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