[airfuel]

Let's do this again.... :blah:

I am still puzzled why MV specs such a heavy oil for these engines.
10W-60/20W-50 seems very thick for a water cooled inline 4 cylinder.

Most if not all Japanese engines spec out 10W-40 and they put out bigger horsepower numbers.

My racing buddy tells me to use a 10w-40 (full synthetic) in the colder temps and maybe a 20W-50 (again full synthetic) if I feel the need.

The current trend in engine lubrication is to use lighter viscosities so that the oil can flow faster, reduce pumping loss, increase power and actually lower operating temps.

Yes, I know all about the shearing that our shared tranny/clutches put on an oil, but modern synthetics can handle this easily.

The current Mobil 1 motorcycle oils are very good, and yes, they are different than the car oils.

Do you know what your dealer actually put in your bike last service?????

Anyone out there actually know why we should use such a thick oil??? Just marketing for AGIP??

John T

 

[JamesC]

Maybe you've read this 'spam' already :laughing: but at the end is a quote from Goggi that he wrote to the yahoogroup a couple of years back.


http://mvfaq.blogspot.com/2005/09/oils-suggested-by-factory.html

So..not only a marketing issue as they have no direct tie to Motul yet still suggest 15W50.

 

[Flanners]

I want to change my oil. I have bought the 'special' oil filter wrench. Is it easy to do?

How much oil from empty does the MVF4750 take cheers?

 

[rramseyr]

3 Liters I beleive

 

[Flanners]

Cheers

 

[oicdn]

I want to change my oil. I have bought the 'special' oil filter wrench. Is it easy to do?

How much oil from empty does the MVF4750 take cheers?

Ahahaha....

You should ask UA_Agusta that...

How about you chime in on that Alex? :laughing:

As a side note...I bought this oil today:

As long as it doesn't say "energy conserving" on the bottom of the API seal, you're good to go. You can't go wrong with Mobil 1. Anybody who says car oil is different from motorcycle oil, and same goes for the oil filters, is on crack. This topic has been beaten to death ad naseum in excess of over 40 pages on ONE thread with both lab results and personal testing, and end tear/break-downs. Basically, what it amounted to, in synopsis, is your top brands' top oil lines (AGIP, Mobil 1, Motul, AMSoil, Redline....), are all very similar. What was surprising though, was that Frams filters are basically worthless, and if you could run a can with no filter elements, you'de almost be getting the same thing. And to make matters worse, it's the only filter most of your cycle shops carry.... But Mobil and Champion filters are top notch. If you're on a budget, get the Federal Mogul/Champion/STP filter(same company), and if you can, Bosch are a little better...both are less than HALF the price of the Mobil 1 filters...

To hell with $13 "motorcycle specific oil" and ESPECIALLY "motorcycle specific filters"....it's all crap. I had the Cycle Gear guy tell me "I always use motorcycle specific oil and filters....". Well good job to you on pissing your money away... Both "motorcycle" and car oils meet/exceed API, ACEA A3, JASO MA ratings, so you tell me, why I should buy it other than the fact that it has some squid on a gsxr on it. And most of your heavier weights, won't have the energy conserving stamp on it...which is what makes "car oil" different from "motorcycle oil"....

Except, the Vtwin oils have been found to be a little different, but that doesn't apply to us

 

[airfuel]

Except, the Vtwin oils have been found to be a little different, but that doesn't apply to us

V-Twin is just a marketing thing for the Harley guys, it is still a 20W-50 and applies to our bikes.

M1 just re-formulated the 15W-50ep car oil and some say it does have some friction modifiers in it, amount unkown so far.....and it does differ from the V-Twin 20w-50.

If I'm not mistaken, the new 15w-50 "goldcap" does not have a JASO MA rating on the bottle.
I won't risk it on my bike untill I have more info on the new Mobil 1 15w-50 "goldcap".

Besides, the V-Twin 20w-50 and MX4T 10w-40 is just about $3 more per quart ($7.99/qt).......I'll spend the extra $9 per oil change for peace of mind.

John T

 

[luvtolean]

As long as it doesn't say "energy conserving" on the bottom of the API seal, you're good to go.

True, as it probably means you won't have any clutch problems.

Anybody who says car oil is different from motorcycle oil...Basically, what it amounted to, in synopsis, is your top brands' top oil lines (AGIP, Mobil 1, Motul, AMSoil, Redline....), are all very similar.

WRONG! Good motorcycle oils, and I think the 300 series Motul is among the best, have different additive packages tailored to motorcycles. I think you really notice the clutch and transmission work better with the premium oils.

I should also note, your Mobil is not a "real" synthetic. It is a blended synthetic, where others, such as the Motul 300V and Amsoil are true polyalphaolefin (PAO) based synthetics.

Not the "watered down by the courts" version of "synthetic" Castrol sued Mobil 1 to use. Castrol sued to basically use the term "synthetic" to apply to their syntec branded oil as a marketing term. This in spite of the fact Syntec has always been a blend. The courts ruled in Castrol's favor...and Mobil has since changed their "synthetic" oils to a highly refined blend to compete at the ~$5/quart oil segment.

Oil threads border on religion and for good reason. Most won't make more HP, and most engines will not have their lifespan or performance compromised by using Mobil, or for that matter, Castrol dino oil, instead of a "premium" synthetic motorcycle oil like the Motul 300. I personally prefer the good stuff, as it provides more margin when I'm at the race track in the summer, and it shifts smoother.

 

[ddnuts]

Interesting read. Please continue...

Other than AGIP and Motul 300V, what are some of the top brands?

 

[oicdn]

I remember that whole Castrol deal, and now see Mobil states on thier bottle blend or synthetic, and gold cap states on the bottle "fully synthetic". I didn't take that picture, just snagged it online.

But I hear you on the oil threads being like religion. I just never had any issues with Mobil, and never heard of anybody "hating" on them like other oils. They produce quality oil, and considering thier competition, CHEAPLY priced. I think the whole HP gain is negligent and mostly marketing.

I've tried the motorcycle specific oils, Motul300 and The Castrol Act Evo....and regardless of whether or not it has the additives in it, compared to the Mobil Gold cap, I've felt nothing different other than the dent in my wallet. Now, in comparison to other oils, I've felt difference, although VERY minimal, there was a difference, and the price hike in this case is worth it. But I've felt nothing with the Motul or Act Evo over the Mobil other than the price per quart...

 

[airfuel]

Mobil1 is a true syn. Group IV and V base stocks make it so. Group III is a semi syn basestock like Castrol.

Motul, If I'm not mistaken is a ester based Syn. Also a true synthetic, just a dfferent basestock.. I think Redline is also an ester based synthetic.

Bottom line. Don't skimp on oil, change often and the bike will love you for it.

I plan on some oil analysis on my oils when I have a few miles on it.

John T

 

[UA_Agusta]

Ok, I used AGIP, expensive, but I don't mind $13 a quart. Ease of doing it, a whole different question. I ended up stabbing my filter with a scredriver to make it finaly turn, and of coursethe whole process is a PITA, but managable, I'm sure second time around it will be substantially easier with experience.

 

[luvtolean]

Mobil1 is a true syn. Group IV and V base stocks make it so. Group III is a semi syn basestock like Castrol.

Well, last time I looked into it Mobil wasn't. According to their website today, Mobil claims to be a true synthetic. But I do think the statement is purposely vague as it "includes" PAOs...so it could still be a blend.

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_FAQs.aspx#FAQs1

Oicdn, I wouldn't argue with you to change your oil. Like you said, as long as it doesn't have the "energy conserving" sticker on it, usually denoting moly which kills clutches, you're good. If you have tried them back-back and found no difference by all means, buy the cheaper stuff! You're certainly not hurting your bike. We run Mobil 1 in the S2000...and I used to run it in my diesel until a little research showed even cheaper fully synthetic Shell Rotella T is a great oil, and much cheaper. (and since it holds over 2.5 gallons, it is nice to use a cheaper oil!)

I think Amsoil makes a good product. A friend found Redline motor oil to be slightly acidic, so I tend to stay away from it, though many use it with great results.

In bikes, I really like the top shelf Motul.

 

[JamesC]

...and regardless of whether or not it has the additives in it, compared to the Mobil Gold cap, I've felt nothing different other than the dent in my wallet.

Although I'm sure many of us have felt the difference after an oil change or when switching - I am also and mostly interested in things not necessarily felt.

Please all have your oil analyzed. The larger the base of participants the better idea we have of our specific bike's character.

I use www.blackstone-labs.com and add the $10 TBN test but would consider switching if everyone had another they preferred as long as there was good participation. I would strongly voice my support for blackstone and the added TBN test myself however.

Here is the TBN detail:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do_i_need_a_tbn_.html

Discussing friction modifiers, shear points, additives and effects is interesting in a theoretical sense but I much prefer comparing charts side by side which show actual numbers associated to the conversation.

 

[airfuel]

JamesC,

We are on the same page!

If you are interested in oil like an extreme geek, head over to "bob is the oil guy".com. BITOG for short. You will read untill you are blue in the face.

 

[airfuel]

Read this from a Ducati list. 9 pages of info.
http://www.ducatimonster.org/smf/index.php/topic,38314.0.html

John T

 

[solo]

where can u buy AGIP oil in the eastern U.S.? Also, do u need a speacial tool to take the oil filter off? I know there is one but do u actually need this tool?

 

[JamesC]

Search for 'filter tool', lost of recent talk.

You can buy Agip from Agip in the USA:

http://mvfaq.blogspot.com/2005/09/oils-suggested-by-factory.html

 

[JamesC]

Read this from a Ducati list. 9 pages of info.
http://www.ducatimonster.org/smf/index.php/topic,38314.0.html

John T

Incredible thread which I had missed somehow. Thanks for linking it! Are you a monster owner as well? My wife is about to swap her monster's engine for a fresh one as it's far easier than the work she needs to do, base gasket on rear cyl, all belts and valves. Her lump is at 60k in last three years... I think she'll finish up the maint on the bench and have it as a spare.

 

[airfuel]

Are you a monster owner as well?

No... Guzzi V11 sport (modified)

But as you can see, the trend is not heavy oils, but lighter oils for better performance in all areas.