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Discussion Starter #1
Ok I feel like a ramble.

There has been a lot of discussion recently wanting major upgrades to the F4 and Brutale, so lets have a think about that. WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO SEE CHANGE? - Heres you chance to have your say...

I will start out.

Have you seen the plethora of new models from the recent shows? Have you noticed how many styling cues there are from the F4 and Brutale across the new models?

In the naked class you can really see the Brutale's influence across many models now. The headlight which was universally panned when it came out, is now looking mandatory, even on the new Honda CBR naked. Except the Tuono which in my eyes is a design styling abomination.
On bikes like the Apilia Shiver, the new Monster, The Moto Morini etc etc the combination trellis frame attached to the side plates is becoming the norm. The low slung pipes, (horribly copied on the monster S4 and S2), is becoming normal, but you know, not one of them seems to have the "wholeness" of design integrity of the brutale. Although the new Hyper Motards coming out from Ducati, KTM, BMW etc are a new breed and I would put them in a different category.
So what should be changed (not graphics) but overall design of the Brutale?

In the sport class it gets a bit harder.

Would it be safe to say that pure sports bikes follow Moto Gp styling? If so then you can see this influence in the new CBR RR, the R6, R1, the GSX RR, the ZX RR etc, and even in the real avant garde KTM. The current GP trends are "origami" type fairings, low slung, and under engine exhausts, real stubby angular rear ends with enourmous number plate hangers, dual sided swingarms, short stubby frames and seating position etc.
Is this the trend we would want the "new " F4 to follow?
My thinking is the buyers of the above machines (especially 600's) will be younger guns wanting the latest and greatest and have them looking like GP replica's.
Is this really the buyers of an F4?
Personally I am close to 50. 25 years ago I would have been all over the new R6, now I have no interest (except purely track, and then it is just a device). I was attracted to the original F4 750 because as a young guy I could never afford an MV but had this burning desire, so when older I jumped at it.

Ducati has had to go back to it's 916 styling cues to satisfy it's buyers for the new 1098. They did include (wisely) some styling cues from their GP bikes. Ducati went back to a single sided swingarm, to two underseat pipes and body work similar to a Desmocedici, best of both worlds.

So what would you see changed on the F4? Lose the SS Swingarm?, lose the 4 pipes up high?, change the fairings?, change the frame? the wheels etc.

This brings up another trend.
Notice how many manufacturers are brinig out modern replicas of some of their classic models?. Ducati with the sport range, Harley, BMW, and all the Japs. Have you seen the new Honda CBR - F range?
Imagine a faithful modern replica of some of those glorious MV's, now that gets me excited!

Sorry back to the F4 and Brutale, what would you see needs changing?

I must say I still love seeing an old or modern 911, and the styling has evolved but is timeless. So for a Ferrari, they are jaw droppingly beautiful. But these cars are not made for the WRX, Supra guys.

:popcorn: .
 

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One thing I really, really need is a lower seat height. I'm practically on tippy toes which makes low speed manuvering very scary. I'm 5' 5" btw.
 

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I think style wise the MV is a GRAND SLAM and therfore should not be totally scratched to start anew. I think a restyled head light and mirrors would be all the style changes I would like to see made. Keep the 4 pipes, keep the fairing, keep the tail section. I would like to see ALOT less weight. Maybe a 30 lbs reduction. I maybe asking for too much there. Also I would like to see them stick to FIM rules. Its kind of premature to make accusations but if FIM doesnt allow 1100 cc I-4's in Superbike then MV made a major boo boo. If that is in fact the case then they should have kept it 1000 cc's and redesigned the motor. Increase stroke and reduce the bore and increase the redline just like how Suzuki did with the 750 to make it more streetable. And of course include a slipper clutch out of the box. ALL this would make the perfect MV in my opinion.
 

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MVASyd said:
Ok I feel like a ramble.

There has been a lot of discussion recently wanting major upgrades to the F4 and Brutale, so lets have a think about that. WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO SEE CHANGE? - Heres you chance to have your say...

:popcorn: .


Greg,
I was just shutting down when I saw this and it got me thinking, particularly after the thread on F4 forum re new engine in old carcus!

When the F4 came out it was years ahead of its time which is why the F4 is still as it is now. MV have a real problem here in coming up with a replacement that will last half the time let alone ten years. MV have to avoid the trap of following current styling cues as the bike will be out of date within a year. Look at the Ducati 999 which was disapointing the moment it arrived at the showrooms.

I don't reckon the 1098 will fair long as much as I love it now, I reckon Ducati will have to consider a re-style in a couple of years...along the lines of the Japanese.

So, where does that leave us? Looking at the F4 I think we are all agreed the headlight needs a re-think - not just to follow the trend but something radical...

We are all pretty protective of the 4 exhausts, and they could be retained, but exiting on one side of the belly pan (4 nice little stubbies on one side??!) or through the seat rather than under - a bit desmodici - granted. The sound is vital and must be seen as a priority.

Being a designer I'm a great advocate of 'form follows function' and the F4 is in dire need of a major diet. Taking off the kilos will start to determine the form and give styling cues for MV to work on.

I saw a Ducati Hypermotard at the weekend and got chatting to the owner. I loved it...its just engine wheels and handle bars...so simple but so beautiful.

The MV engine has to be designed to be more compact and lighter as it will be the heart of both the F4 and Brutale - thats what will start to generate the form. So I totally agree with your views re- 'wholeness' of design.

Reference the 'classics' I will never forget back in the Seventies when 20 to 30 MV Americas trundled into our town. The noise was awesome and from that day I always vowed to get an MV. Shame it took 30 years!

If MV were to try this, aka the 'Paul Smart' Ducati, they would have to get the sound replicated to the exact pitch and volume for it to tug my heart...and if they do it...I will be first to sign on the dotted.

Not sure if anyone agrees with my ramblings, but its getting late, I'm pissed, and about to crash out....hopefully dreaming of that MV wail! :yo:
Later,
Tont
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Tont, I think you got it nailed.

Must have been the beers.
I agree, nothing too radical but yes the front headlight, mirrors and fairing around there. Yes to the four pipes, and agree four small curvy items exisiting the bellypan (ala modern version of the old MV's), this would be with a dual swingarm, and a loss of 15 kilos, and re styled rear, some larger side fairing vents, keep the engine revvy and screaming! and we are good to go.
 

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Now this is sensible!

Headlight changed, even, dare I say a two piece look, that accentuates the front end.

More/larger cutouts in the fairings, for obvious reasons. Sharpen them a touch too.

Mirrors that look similar to the Lambo Diablo! MMMMMM mirrors!
 

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MVASyd said:
Tont, I think you got it nailed.

Must have been the beers.
I agree, nothing too radical but yes the front headlight, mirrors and fairing around there. Yes to the four pipes, and agree four small curvy items exisiting the bellypan (ala modern version of the old MV's), this would be with a dual swingarm, and a loss of 15 kilos, and re styled rear, some larger side fairing vents, keep the engine revvy and screaming! and we are good to go.
Aah I remember beer !?!

The single sided swingarm is as significant as the four exhausts and their tone in defining the art of the MV for me. I would hate to see the single sided rear end go.
 

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guess I better run out now and buy another, before all the changes

as far as im concerned im happy as it is

why change for the sake of change

but then perhaps its just me
 

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I rather like the bikes as they are, too, but I'm always up for a new look as long as it ain't too much of a change.

I know this must be a faux pas, but I've never seen an F4 in person before. I bought my brutale from an owner and the closest dealer is some 400 miles away (I do my own work). Bastards.

Nevertheless, as an uninitiated eye on the F4 and from what I've seen out there on other bikes and the like, I agree on a changed headlight, maybe even something crazy like a W of lights. However, losing the single-sided swing arm or the organ pipes would be drastic. There'd have to be some kind of nuclear fusion engine that attached to a hover apparatus, otherwise, I say those should stay.
 

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New front and an all over subtle refinement as the exisiting design is still the best looking production bike. Apart from the front end the only other part of the original design I feel has dated is the Star rims. I like the Brembos on the R/312 but would like to see an original iconic design on the new model also.

The single sided swingarm is a big part of the design but as long as the bike looked (and performed) the goods I would be happy to have a dual sided swing arm...I'd be very happy standing around looking at a Desmosidici in the shed :mouthwate and you could save some weight there too....

speaking of which I know it's marginally heavier than the competition and maybe it's just me but I don't have an issue with the weight and the only time I really notice it is when I'm pushing the bike around the shed and maybe very slow tight corners (in which it isn't that bad)...I have the Marchesini rims which are lighter than the star rims so this probably has something to do with it but the MV is the most stable bike I have ridden (not just in the corners but with cross winds and trucks going past in the other direction) and maybe I'm way off base here but maybe the extra kg's might have something to do with this??? (a guess ride on a Veltro would answer that)...so I'd only like to see it go on a diet only if it does not affect it's rock solid feel.

And for gods sake please no crappy paint scheme.
 

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Yes, the bike must further evolve, or it will be left behind. We know it was a winning design but its now time that Tambo pulls something out of the bag. About a year ago, I spoke with the then editor of Ride magazine who stated that Tambo had showed him a new design for the F4. Apparently it was breathtaking, but they didn't have the money to take it further.
 

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What was the deal with the Bestiale at the Paris show? I think this bike is the one that started all new bike controversy. If it wasn't for this bike I don't think we would be talking of a new bike. there has to be a new F4 in the works. I don't think that they would create a new naked bike before their flagship.

Maybe there are certain styling cues from this bike that are incorperated from the new F4? Like it's a test for the new design, to see if we the people like the direction they might be going.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T0-_-ZlKho&eurl=http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/News/2008/2008_MV_Agusta_and_Cagiva.htm

I don't think that they really need to do this but just a thought. Can't they just refine it a little and shave some weight? dual side by side headlights would be cool. I definitely think they need to stay with the single sided swing arm and the organ stile exhaust.:)
 

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so, hopefully, they took the masses of people who screamed "oh, god! oh, god!" and poked their eyes out as a sign not to make anything so vastly ugly. And they dipped the designer in chocolate and left him outside of a McDonald's.
 

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MVASyd said:
Tont, I think you got it nailed.

Must have been the beers.
I agree, nothing too radical but yes the front headlight, mirrors and fairing around there. Yes to the four pipes, and agree four small curvy items exisiting the bellypan (ala modern version of the old MV's), this would be with a dual swingarm, and a loss of 15 kilos, and re styled rear, some larger side fairing vents, keep the engine revvy and screaming! and we are good to go.

Ha ha!!....I now feel the need to hit the drawing board....with a few beers to inspire of course!.... I maybe gone for some time!!...cheers! :friday:
 

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A new F4? when the 916 come out it had the same response, and every couple of years they changed the model slightly..916sp....916sps..916foggy rep..996...996s...996sps....996R...998..998 ben bostrom...998s..998Matrix...998Final edition..998R Now how many times have they changed the F4 its the way Cladio & Tambo work! then a huge change complete different bike...999. If tambo was to design a new bike i think (might eat my words soon but...) it will be something completly different and a new name maybe not F5 but something else even if they do make a new one and call it an F5 Thats NOT an F4 it's an F5. Leonardo divinci didn't paint the mona lisa twice did he!. It would be a terrible shame to redesign a master piece that is the F4. Any how if Claudio and Tambo stayed at Ducati maybe the 999 would have been the F4????. The next bike will be the sistith chapel. BRING IT ON.
 
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