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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Questions about Gen1 F4 SP kits...

Why do you think the Viper (SP01), Mamba (SP02/03/04), and Corse (SP14/15) kits weren't more successful?

The Viper kit was $18,000. 50 Total; 12 in the US.
(All custom painted carbon bodywork, including fuel tank; magnesium wheels, swingarm, frame plates, and lower triples; RG3 exhaust; certification and badge.)

The Mamba Full Optional kit was $12,000. 300 Total; <15 in the US.
(All custom painted carbon bodywork, with steel fuel tank; forged aluminum wheels; standard swingarm, frame plates, and lower triples; RG3 exhaust; certification and badge; cover and available helmet.)

The Corse kit was $6,700. Add for Carbon Kit, Marchesinis, and Titanium Exhaust. 300 Total; <10 in the US.
(All custom painted plastic bodywork, with steel fuel tank; forged aluminum wheels; standard swingarm, frame plates, and lower triples; RG3 exhaust; certification and badge; cover and available helmet.)


IF there were a continuation run of any/all of these as Gen1 SP kits, would they be successfully sold? If so, in what quantities?


Everyone seems to lust after one or more of these. But few seem to be willing to part with the cash for one. Is the Gen1 market dead for such things?
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
????? Sorry Blake i just can´t understand.....the story behind the kits....was it in US ???
Yes. Even though in Europe these were all available to order as fully-built bikes, they were also much more widely available as Special Parts (SP) kits to add to any Gen1 F4. (That's why many call your Corse a "kit bike", because the majority were kits installed separately after bike/kit purchase rather than being built at CRC as complete bikes.)

The only way to get a Viper, Mamba, or Corse in the US was to buy the kit and have it installed on a new or used F4. Some of the few sold were dealers installing the kit on a new bike and charging for both as though it was imported that way. But they were still dealer "built" as new units.

The Nº 11 F4 Mamba, for instance, was a new 2005 F4 1000S and a Mamba SP03 kit. The kit was installed on the new bike at the dealer, and the dealer sold all the take-offs as parts while charging nearly $35,000. The customer bought it as a new bike, but it was imported as a standard F4 and a kit.

The Nº 23 Viper started as a new F4 750S and a Viper SP01 kit, at a total cost of over $36,000. The owner sold all the take-off parts here on mv.net and installed the kit for the bike to sit in her basement unridden until early in 2010 when she sold it for $16,000.

That's the basic story of the SP kits in the US, and it was also true for the majority of SP kits in Europe. There was just the available option in Europe of ordering the bike complete and usually waiting a few months for delivery.

Veltros and most Starfighters were different, all being built as complete bikes and only sold in Europe. But a few Starfighter kits made their way to the US, and were installed on bikes just like most of the F4 kits.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
any limited serie is risky on replacement parts. at least one sp01 kit was used to repair a senna of this reason!
This seems odd to me. The SP01 had all carbon bodywork, including the fuel tank. Neither of the Sennas had either, with only plastic bodywork and steel fuel tanks.

I love the Senna, especially the 750, but I would never cannibalize an SP01 of its parts to repair a Senna.

All replacement parts for limited editions are available from CRC on an order basis. Any complete limited edition or kit bodywork set can be ordered for replacement.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Perhaps I'm just stuck in the past, and others don't have much desire or concern for the SP bikes. The Gen2 may have obsoleted the Gen1 in this regard, and us old guard are just being nostalgic.

The SP bikes started in 2002 and were pretty much gone by 2007, so it's been 12 years since the SP01 and 7 years and another generation of design since they were available.

But as much as I appreciate the new Gen2 F4RR as a more modern and superior overall product for today's market, Morton's beauty will fade while Tamburini's will remain timeless, even with its broader hips.
 

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Yes. Even though in Europe these were all available to order as fully-built bikes, they were also much more widely available as Special Parts (SP) kits to add to any Gen1 F4. (That's why many call your Corse a "kit bike", because the majority were kits installed separately after bike/kit purchase rather than being built at CRC as complete bikes.)

The only way to get a Viper, Mamba, or Corse in the US was to buy the kit and have it installed on a new or used F4. Some of the few sold were dealers installing the kit on a new bike and charging for both as though it was imported that way. But they were still dealer "built" as new units.

The Nº 13 F4 Mamba, for instance, was a new 2005 F4 1000S and a Mamba SP03 kit. The kit was installed on the new bike at the dealer, and the dealer sold all the take-offs as parts while charging nearly $35,000. The customer bought it as a new bike, but it was imported as a standard F4 and a kit.

The Nº 23 Viper started as a new F4 750S and a Viper SP01 kit, at a total cost of over $36,000. The owner sold all the take-off parts here on mv.net and installed the kit for the bike to sit in her basement unridden until early in 2010 when she sold it for $16,000.

That's the basic story of the SP kits in the US, and it was also true for the majority of SP kits in Europe. There was just the available option in Europe of ordering the bike complete and usually waiting a few months for delivery.

Veltros and most Starfighters were different, all being built as complete bikes and only sold in Europe. But a few Starfighter kits made their way to the US, and were installed on bikes just like most of the F4 kits.
When the Corse was introduced to me on paper it was a full bike from CRC, thus the few months to receive it.

Now i understand, thank you Blake.


P.s Where the kits sold as such in the limited brochure ? I mean does the certificat say KIT ?
 

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Perhaps I'm just stuck in the past, and others don't have much desire or concern for the SP bikes. The Gen2 may have obsoleted the Gen1 in this regard, and us old guard are just being nostalgic.

The SP bikes started in 2002 and were pretty much gone by 2007, so it's been 12 years since the SP01 and 7 years and another generation of design since they were available.

But as much as I appreciate the new Gen2 F4RR as a more modern and superior overall product for today's market, Morton's beauty will fade while Tamburini's will remain timeless, even with its broader hips.

+1 :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
When the Corse was introduced to me on paper it was a full bike from CRC, thus the few months to receive it.
According to Tuna (mv.net member), yours is one of only 9 complete Corse bikes ever sold. All the rest were kits, and less than 10 came to the US.

Tuna ordered the last complete Corse bike and had it shipped to the US. He had many CC-spec upgrades done as well, and he bought all the remaining bodywork and other Corse parts that were left in San Marino.

Now i understand, thank you Blake.
Yeah, that's why so many think your bike is a kit. I know you've been frustrated by that, but this should explain why.

P.s Where the kits sold as such in the limited brochure ? I mean does the certificat say KIT ?
The brochure specifically says "KIT DI TRASFORMAZIONE" in Italian and TRANSFORMATION KIT in English. I just got my Corse brochure out to look at it for sure.

The certificate only indicates Limited Edition.
 

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According to Tuna (mv.net member), yours is one of only 9 complete Corse bikes ever sold. All the rest were kits, and less than 10 came to the US.

Tuna ordered the last complete Corse bike and had it shipped to the US. He had many CC-spec upgrades done as well, and he bought all the remaining bodywork and other Corse parts that were left in San Marino.



Yeah, that's why so many think your bike is a kit. I know you've been frustrated by that, but this should explain why.



The brochure specifically says "KIT DI TRASFORMAZIONE" in Italian and TRANSFORMATION KIT in English. I just got my Corse brochure out to look at it for sure.

The certificate only indicates Limited Edition.
Again, thank you! I knew just a few were made but only 9 :wtf:

I guess the price was to close to the Tamburini bike, making it less appealing.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Again, thank you! I knew just a few were made but only 9 :wtf:

I guess the price was to close to the Tamburini bike, making it less appealing.
Yes, it was still considered as an SP bike rather than a production limited edition. With the carbon bodywork, the Tamburini was a better value, and also bore the name of the designer.

Your 312R-based Corse is a higher spec bike than the Tambo, except it didn't have TSS. But the Corse should have had carbon bodywork, IMHO.

In the US, the Tambo was $42,695. Your Corse would have been about $39,000 over here. The 312R was $24,995 and the Corse kit would have been another $6700 plus carbon kit, Marchesinis, and titanium exhaust, etc., plus install. (In the brochure, all the carbon trim is considered optional as personalization of the kit.)

Nobody else seems to love the SP bikes and the Veltros like a few of us do.
 

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Yes, it was still considered as an SP bike rather than a production limited edition. With the carbon bodywork, the Tamburini was a better value, and also bore the name of the designer.

Your 312R-based Corse is a higher spec bike than the Tambo, except it didn't have TSS. But the Corse should have had carbon bodywork, IMHO.

In the US, the Tambo was $42,695. Your Corse would have been about $33,000 over here. The 312R was $24,995 and the Corse kit would have been another $6000 plus carbon and install. (In the brochure, all the carbon trim is considered optional as personalization of the kit.)

Nobody else seems to love the SP bikes and the Veltros like a few of us do.
My bike cost was 42000€ (erm....errrr) since i chose the full options, but i gave 3 watches in exchange, so its more....:bandit:

I do love some of the SP bikes, and honestly was given the oportunity to buy a special Tamburini, but the colour scheme wasn´t my favourite. The Corse appealed to me more, and what counts is how you react to a specific model or bike.

P.s Blake, do you know of an F4 750 Strada ever produced ?
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
My bike cost was 42000€ (erm....errrr) since i chose the full options, but i gave 3 watches in exchange, so its more....:bandit:
Wow, that's $58,000 USD. Much more than the Tamburini at $43,000.

I do love some of the SP bikes, and honestly was given the oportunity to buy a special Tamburini, but the colour scheme wasn´t my favourite. The Corse appealed to me more, and what counts is how you react to a specific model or bike.

P.s Blake, do you know of an F4 750 Strada ever produced ?
The original 750S was the 750 Strada. That's probably not what you're talking about, though.
 

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Well put Veltro. So often magazines refer to a newer F4 as a Tamburini design, but it is not. Adrian Morton was put to the task of giving the bike new bodywork, with the idea that it look like a freshened up version of the original.

But as much as I appreciate the new Gen2 F4RR as a more modern and superior overall product for today's market, Morton's beauty will fade while Tamburini's will remain timeless, even with its broader hips.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well put Veltro. So often magazines refer to a newer F4 as a Tamburini design, but it is not. Adrian Morton was put to the task of giving the bike new bodywork, with the idea that it look like a freshened up version of the original.
No doubt Morton's design is gorgeous as a worthy successor, and without peer amongst current competitors. But it isn't a landmark of genius and forward-thinking like Tamburini's original.

The F4 was first penned in 1997, and went into production in 1999. That's 15-17 years of timeless elegance in an industry of products that generally all look dated in 5 years or less.

Morton has done well with the overall product lineup. But the first F4 will never have an equal. The only plausible second place is Tamburini's own 916-series Duc.

None of this is ground-breaking information. We all knew it already.
 

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Second that!!
 

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Nobody else seems to love the SP bikes and the Veltros like a few of us do.
I certainly do! I don't care one bit whether a Mamba is considered a cobbled up "kit" bike or a factory original......I really like the looks of the bike. Isn't that what really matters?

Our friend Francois has a Brutie America that is sexy as all get out in my opinion. It's a ratty old spec 750, but it really looks nice to me.
 

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Morton has done well with the overall product lineup. But the first F4 will never have an equal.
What about the Honda Rune? :stickpoke
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I certainly do! I don't care one bit whether a Mamba is considered a cobbled up "kit" bike or a factory original......I really like the looks of the bike. Isn't that what really matters?

Our friend Francois has a Brutie America that is sexy as all get out in my opinion. It's a ratty old spec 750, but it really looks nice to me.
We're evidently a small category, though.

Other than the TSS system and the rear shock on the Tambo, the Mamba on an F4 1000S is very nearly the same spec. And for those who don't prefer gold bling, I'd think it might even be preferable based on appearance alone.

It never gets a lot of attention when I start these threads on Special Parts bikes. Maybe they're so rare, they're not on the radar for very many. But if you can find one, they're a bargain now. It's almost like getting the SP kit free with the bike.
 
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