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Low RPM throttle problem on MV Brutale?

  • Got problem fixed under warranty

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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi,

There are quite alot of posts with people having problems with low rpm throttle not working. There are various suggestions to fix it some of which are quite expensive such as remapping/replacing ECU.

My bike is a Brutale 2013 1090 R from Sydney Australia.

Has MV ever addressed the issue if mechanics were unable to fix it?
Has there ever been an MV rep on this forum that has made a comment about the issue.?

I would be interested to hear what others have experienced with this issue or not. I still have the problem see here , so please post a short outcome of what you did to resolve it.

1) i did not have an issue
2) I did have but the mechanic fixed it (under warranty)
3) The Mechanics (warranty) could not fix it, so you got it sorted by spending your own money with a specialist. Problem is resolved.
4) still have an issue dont know what to do, mechanics say just put up with it.

I have emailed MV and the importers but they have not contacted me in over two months.
The shop that i bought from just say its a characteristic of the bike.
Taken it to other shops but they say take it back to the dealer.
My concern is i am looking at spending $$ for an issue that should be fixed under warranty! Also is thisto be expected for italian bikes that you need to spend money to sort these issues out? This was the main reason buying a brutale, a good urban heavy traffic bike where you need low rpm control.

Cheers.
 

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Exup, take some time and read through the Brutale and maint. section mate, this has been discussed for most bikes, many times.
It would be good if you told us what model Brutale you have, where you are located, etc.
 

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Am afraid this is a problem suffered by modern bikes due to emissions controls, not all though, I think there are 3 basic issues, the fuel is cut off on the overrun, in general the mixture is too weak for good low rpm running and of course because the mixture is weak the ignition timing has also to be less than optimum, the weak mixture is needed for the emissions tests. I doubt the dealer will be able to sort it unless your TPS setting is way out, but that's unlikely.

I ended spending the money on a microtec to sort my 1090 out.

The Diavel I have just bought suffers the same but thankfully the Mitsubishi ECU can be re-flashed.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I disagree that this is a common problem for modern sport bikes. Having tested the same bike as a demo version all be it 2012 model it did not have this gap of 4000 rpm. That is no revs! You cant hold say 2 or 3k it does not exist and this is in neutral. Also the previous bikes I have had all easily rev between idle and 4k. Eg R1's speed triples and the like.

I dont own a car so I use bikes every day all weather for over 35 years so not a newbie to this, just new to MV.

It would seem then that it is common and is up to the owner to fork out paying to fix the issue with a $1000 ecu plus setup. I have already contacted X bikes to see what I am up for.

I have read most threads on the problem and there are going three positions 1) don't try I and fix it yourself 2) buy a techno research centroriun diagnostic tool and reset and balance the TP's and make sure the tps is at 2.1 degree or 3) get a remapped ECU.

I am going to have one more go at doing option two in case the ECU is fooled into thinking it is not actually at the right angle.
But why on a brand new bike the owner should be needing to do this is beyond me.

Cheers and thanks for the thoughts and comments.

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The only low speed issue I've found was that the brute gets a bit bucky crawling in traffic unless you ride the clutch, mainly due to the on/off nature of the fueling at very low rpm. I've also noticed that it does not like being held at 4k. I tend to keep it around 5+ for a smoother feel. Not sure if this is due to the exhaust valve activity or not. Regardless, I've found it manageable enough until I decide to upgrade exhausts, when it will become worth it to upgrade the ECU and clear up most of the fueling issues.

Maybe you're fueling is worse than mine and not a easy to live with, but if MV won't help you out, maybe look into a full exhaust system to help justify the additional ECU work :) Good Luck.
 

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I am with you exup about how I cant believe mv makes a bike with such a fueling problem. I wrote mv with no response, took the bike under warranty to the dealer, he tried to adjust it out but couldn't. so I have decided to sell the bike and go back to Japanese bikes. My Z1000 that I traded in for the new brutale 1090R ran perfect right from the show room floor. I guess I am not the Italian bike type of guy. expensive lesson learned. The two closest dealers from me said they will not handle mv after the first of the year because they give no support to the dealer. what a shame.
 

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The two closest dealers from me said they will not handle mv after the first of the year because they give no support to the dealer. what a shame.
That's a damn shame, my dealer (Moto Forza) has done nothing short of provide me with awesome service.

Sounds more like crappy dealers that don't know how to service the bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yes Rocketrex that's what I am reluctantly thinking of doing. Quit my losses and go back to the dark side :)

Shame as it is a bonkers bike to ride once over 5k never pulled some many wheelies to and from work. Oh and power slides like a super motad! With street fighter looks.

Will have another fiddle with it, hopefully the ecu swap won't break the bank. If it does then I worry its gonna end up being a money pit.



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Hi Exup,
seems a shame to change bikes if you really like the Brutale. I have the 2012 1090R and have fitted the microtec (brought from Chris). Originally mine went from idle straight to about 3K which was no good in Perth on the many small roundabouts here, particularly in the wet, and it did make it jerky in traffic. Fuel economy was also very surprising. The new ECU has resolved these issues painlessly and I would say that in the 11000Km's since changing (currently 14000) to the microtec, the fuel improvement alone has almost paid for the ECU. I am currently hiring an autotune unit that Dominic (Protech Motorcycles in Port Macquarie who is the Aus agent) has brought in. Unfortunately I haven't got this done yet, but will be interesting to see what happens there. I did tweak the fueling with Chris' advice when I first installed the microtech as it was running rich. I suspect that it still maybe rich, but rather than guess, I thought I would try the autotune this time.
Other than that, fuel, tyres and servicing are the only costs I have experienced and have had enjoyed many great, trouble free rides. The bike looks great, rides brilliantly and requires no more maintenance than any Japanese bike I have owned. It is a far cry from my last Italian experience of a Fantic GT back in the early 80's which looked good (for a moped), was fast but required a lot of attention!

Cheers

Wayne
 

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Have you talked to the guys at Trooper Lu's about it EXUP? I know Last service I got a new map in mine and it seemed to sort out the bottom end a bit. from what I heard a year or so ago Justin went over to the MV factory to work with them to sort out some of the fueling issues on a couple of the older models.

the ECU's from Evolution bike are fairly reasonably priced too. (maybe a good chance to convince your other if you have one that a new exhaust system is required)
 

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Hi Exup,
seems a shame to change bikes if you really like the Brutale. I have the 2012 1090R and have fitted the microtec (brought from Chris). Originally mine went from idle straight to about 3K which was no good in Perth on the many small roundabouts here, particularly in the wet, and it did make it jerky in traffic. Fuel economy was also very surprising. The new ECU has resolved these issues painlessly and I would say that in the 11000Km's since changing (currently 14000) to the microtec, the fuel improvement alone has almost paid for the ECU. I am currently hiring an autotune unit that Dominic (Protech Motorcycles in Port Macquarie who is the Aus agent) has brought in. Unfortunately I haven't got this done yet, but will be interesting to see what happens there. I did tweak the fueling with Chris' advice when I first installed the microtech as it was running rich. I suspect that it still maybe rich, but rather than guess, I thought I would try the autotune this time.
Other than that, fuel, tyres and servicing are the only costs I have experienced and have had enjoyed many great, trouble free rides. The bike looks great, rides brilliantly and requires no more maintenance than any Japanese bike I have owned. It is a far cry from my last Italian experience of a Fantic GT back in the early 80's which looked good (for a moped), was fast but required a lot of attention!

Cheers

Wayne

Good to hear you're getting sorted Wayne.
It must be a inconsistent problem, I rode a Y13R a couple of weeks ago, and although a bit choppy, it was nowhere near as bad as what you and Exup describe. In fact I mentioned how much better it was compared to my old 910S or to what my F4 was like when I first got it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hi thanks wajor,

Ok microtech site is very car focused, so do third party people buy the ecu so that it can be tuned to be suitable for our bikes. So on the evo bikes site they advertise an ecu from microtech but have built the cable interfaces so it can clip straight in.
Can I ask was it a straight drop in ECU from microtech, or does it first have to be tweaked plus dyno time.
Dare I ask how much? Sorry I am now going to pester you with lots of questions!
Is this the auto tune unit from microtech too http://microtechefi.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=42
You say hire? Cheaper than buying i take it?
(Fantic eh, that takes me back but it was a trials bike)

Hi milk, yes took it to trooper, they tried everything they could but it being a warranty job and me not buying it from them is only fair the place I bought from should carry the risk/cost. He thinks the TB's were not set properly at the factory, but we didnt dig any deeper. Thanks for the tip about evo bikes, did you get a full replacement ecu or broke open the original and replaced the chip?

If anyone has a good site about how all this ecu upgrade process works that would be great. Not that i need to understand the tecnology more what the end to end process is.
 

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Exup,
The ecu that fits the MV is a microtec, ECU M226, be careful about the spelling or else you will be getting confused about the product/fitment.
Chris at xbikes is a site sponsor and a very competent guy in setting MV's up. The M226 is also available from other sources as well.
jimboF4
 

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Hi Donsy,

This is the first MV I have had and would happily buy another and recommend them. I love going out on it even before the microtec. Since the upgrade I have had two winters (this one being bloody wet) and the microtec just makes town riding a non-issue.

Exup - different microtec see http://www.microtec.cc/cms/en

I can't remember how much the ECU was as I got relatives in the UK to pay for it from memory and paid them back in AU$. I did get it from Chris at XBikes. Local to you is Dominic at Port Macquarie whom Chris came over and showed how to set up and map the units on a dyno. His details are at: http://bikeshop.com.au/

There is a tuner here in Perth that will map it on a dyno, but it costs more than I am prepared to pay for the type of riding I do. The autotune seemed a bit of a challenge (the manuals leave lot to be desired) and fun to play with. And affordable, The base map from Chris is pretty much good enough on delivery. As I say, just a couple of minor tweaks that he talked me through.
Whilst I agree that maybe the factory supplied mapping/ECU should work better than it does (on some bikes), the extra cost has made the bike so much more pleasurable, with excellent throttle control from idle on.
In a nutshell, yes the M226 is a straight replacement for the standard ECU. It will work extremely well straight from the box if supplied with a map developed by Chris, but a minor tweak may improve it. No, dynotime is not required.

Hope that helps

Wayne
 

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exup,
If it's a cost issue with the ECU upgrade, just run it up against any loss you might take on resale or trade in on the Brute. Pretty sure it will equal or exceed the cost of a Microtec. You'd also end up with an inferior machine, imho, instead of a smoother running dynamo with the capacity to adjust to any future upgrades :) I'm slightly biased though, love my 1090R.
 
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