MV Agusta Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
All,

Shannons will hold their quarterly Sydney auction at Homebush and the lots include this MV 350 http://www.shannons.com.au/pages/auctions/lot.jsp?id=RRPXAF71C3390A68

I had a look at the bike, it is well presented, however I'm no expert on these 350 twins.

I did make the following observations:

It appeared to be oil tight
All cosmetics are near perfect
The gear lever had a flaw, not sure if it was from manufacturing (poor casting flaw) or a repair (not so likely)
It has a right side gear change (a challenge for those of us used to bikes from after the 1970's)
The fairing interferes with the kick start (so push only? no evidence of an electric starter)
There are no air-filters on the carburettor bell-mouths
Tyres apear old but not cracked
Discs have evidence of lack of use too (lever pressures seemed good)

I have no room for this and it really isn't my thing either, so god luck if you're considering it.

Andrew...
 

·
Cyber SPOTTER
Joined
·
6,101 Posts
Hi Andrew,

I have seen that bike - If were buying it the main question I would want answered would regarding the motor. If original - it is just waiting to fail, the Ipotesi's where built with flawed heads, generally leading to a (catastrophic) valve failure, especially if it has been sitting around for a long time. I have had both engines, heads done on my Ipotesis.

The fairing on that bike is from a 750 I am surprised that it fits, the bike does not have an electric starter so, you must be able to kick start it somehow. The kick starters are quite fragile on those things so, generally if it doesn't start first few kicks, I bump start mine.

The guiding range is $15-$20K so it will be VERY interesting to see what kind of bids, if any it gets. The last Melbourne Shannons auction saw much of the stuff that you would have expected to sell being passed in.
Sign of the times?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Rob. Im sending you a PM regarding the Ipo.
Also are you saying 15k AU?
Because thats just crazy...
 

·
Cyber SPOTTER
Joined
·
6,101 Posts
Yep Alex, that's what they are saying - $15-$20k AUD is the expected selling range - personally I think there are way too many 'motorcycle investor' dreamers around. It's kind of funny how this rides on the back of a thread I started on that topic a little while ago.

It will be interesting to see what they get, personally I would love it if they got $20k for it for obvious reasons ;)

You know sometimes you get lucky when someone with more money than sense comes out of the woodwork & buys stuff, the problem is people hang on that as a real market value & then after much financial pain find it isn't so.

Here in Sydney we have a company called Deus Ex-Machina, they get clapped SR400 yamahas tart them up, bling bling them, turn them into cafe racers, badge them as "Deus" & sell to the Yuppie scene for $15K & up - yep, they sure do - the real shock comes when these yuppies come to sell these 'unique' bikes & have to take a major bath.

I'll go check my PMs :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,762 Posts
The starting price, $15,000, seems quite high especially when you add a hammer fee. Auctions like this often sell items for inflated prices due to the auction hype and/or buyers who haven't done their research.

It may also be the case that the 'adviser' as to the bikes value doesn't know the market and puts an unrealistic value on the bike much to the owners pleasure, that is until the bids are far below the price guideline or there are no bids at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
The starting price, $15,000, seems quite high especially when you add a hammer fee. Auctions like this often sell items for inflated prices due to the auction hype and/or buyers who haven't done their research.

It may also be the case that the 'adviser' as to the bikes value doesn't know the market and puts an unrealistic value on the bike much to the owners pleasure, that is until the bids are far below the price guideline or there are no bids at all.
I sold a car in a Shannons Auction, they asked me my reserve and then created a guide that reflected my reserve. For my sale at no point did Shannons attempt to coerce my reserve, so based on this I'd suggest the owner has set a reserve of about $18k.

I personally have no feeling for the value of these bikes, but as a general rule a 350cc bike of that vintage for over $15k has got to be pretty special.

Andrew...
 

·
Cyber SPOTTER
Joined
·
6,101 Posts
Head Failure





These two pics show exactly how they can fail and will eventually fail. So even if it has no problem I would still take off the head, and have it re - engineered.

The bike running beautifully is a so much fun to ride, it really does transport back to another era.


I rode mine last weekend with my wife & son - She rode the Guzzi, He rode the Cagiva - I rode the 350s and it was a blast - never fails to leave a smile on my face but that particular one I have owned for 15-16 years :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
These two pics show exactly how they can fail and will eventually fail. So even if it has no problem I would still take off the head, and have it re - engineered.

The bike running beautifully is a so much fun to ride, it really does transport back to another era.
Quite major valve seat failure,

when you say "re-engineered", do you mean grind out the original valve seats, fill the the area with new metal and then cut new valve seats and ports?

Or was there more to the task? did you change the porting and flow with this work?

Andrew...
 

·
Cyber SPOTTER
Joined
·
6,101 Posts
That head is in my garage, we used NOS head, as you can see from the pitting, the heads as produced have a higher degree of porosity than would normally be desired.

The new head was ground out, new seats were made from a harder material and fused into place, I am not sure of the process, the porting & flow is as original spec - the engineering work I referred to was more how the valve seats built and set into the new head rather than cut into the head from the original alloy. Anyhow, that's the best of my understanding .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
normally , in a production situtation the valve seats will be cooled in liquid nitrogen and drifted/pressed into place using the valve guide as alignment to ensure the seat is 100% correct to the guide itself.

however if in a small shop they MAY heat the head then fit the valve seat without cooling the seat. In most cases it is specific type work and most mechanics these days are not tooled up to do the job so will send the head off to a specialist machine shop to have the work done............then charge accordingly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,152 Posts
The fetch quite some price over there , in Europe the ipotesi is not so in demand (design i guess)
Everybody over here wants the older model with the nice round cilinders.
 

·
Cyber SPOTTER
Joined
·
6,101 Posts
Back From Auction

Anyone that was interested in the outcome - there were two bids one for $15K & a follow up bid at $16K (AUD ff course) - it was passed it as it did not reach reserve.

With the hammer fee the total cost would have been $16500 AUD.

It did surprise I must admit but then again a barn find A9X Torana sold for $149K yep that's $149,000 AUD!! I (amongst others around me) almost choked on our hot dogs - my tip was $110K just goes to show what happens at Auctions.

There was a beautifully restored Moto Guzzi Stornello 125 that almost sold for $5K - I bid up to $8100 that's $8600 with hammer fee then bailed out ;) I do hope the vendor reads this and sends me a bottle of champagne as that guy had it in the bag at $5 before I lifted my bid card & left him hanging with the final bid :laughing:

Auctions are BLAST - I love the adrenaline & IF you don't get stuck with the final bid it is EVEN more fun :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
That sounds like a blast Rob. My parents are going to barrett Jackson and I'm very jealous. I'm also pretty happy that the 350 bid up to 16500!
 

·
Cyber SPOTTER
Joined
·
6,101 Posts
Indeed it is Alex, for me it's also about body language and matching wits (the wrong reasons to be there I know), I was right at back at the side so I could see everyone and you get some fantastic clues of what people are going to do by watching them (obvioulsy they are not professional poker players) as they give everything away. Even the phone bidders, the hestitation, the promptness of reply all give you clues.

My wife had threatened to kill me if I got stuck with any of those bids except for the Moto Guzzi :laughing: I am happy I got the owner an extra $3K, I reckon teh bidder's upper limit was $8500 ($9000 with hammer fees) with was a crazy price but must confess I did not have the gumption to back analsys :jsm: :naughty:

The Auction was held in conjunction with a hot rod show - so after the auction we had a look around until closing 6.30pm then went out to dinner at a very cool Portuguese restuarant & went thru the items & had a laugh about bids, prices etc. I think for us it was entertainment rather than anything else.

A fun day out for us, I guess that's one of the risk of auctions - people like 'us' :eek: :jsm: :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Anyone that was interested in the outcome - there were two bids one for $15K & a follow up bid at $16K (AUD ff course) - it was passed it as it did not reach reserve.

With the hammer fee the total cost would have been $16500 AUD.

There was a beautifully restored Moto Guzzi Stornello 125 that almost sold for $5K - I bid up to $8100 that's $8600 with hammer fee then bailed out ;) I do hope the vendor reads this and sends me a bottle of champagne as that guy had it in the bag at $5 before I lifted my bid card & left him hanging with the final bid
That was you... I noted the Moto Guzzi was getting some surprisingly interesting attention, I just assumed it was a pair of the rather passionate one-eyed Moto Guzzi enthusiasts having an ego shoot-out (certainly the seller owes you a nice bottle of Scotch, I wouldn't be getting to cosy with the buyer if he finds out though).

I thought the MV was ambitious in the guide and was rather surprised that it got those bids - nice looking bike though.

Personally I wanted the petrol tank from the Manx Norton however the only bid exceeded my level by a factor of two (probably a good price though - especially in 20 or so years).

I left after the Rolls Royce was auctioned, it was the Fiat 500 Bambino that had me gobsmacked, it had an anticipated sell of $8 - $12k (normally an upper end price for one of these cars) and the hammer fell at about $18k, in the old days we had a few of these as customers in the workshop, they were cute but not that cute.

Andrew...
 

·
Cyber SPOTTER
Joined
·
6,101 Posts
That was you... I noted the Moto Guzzi was getting some surprisingly interesting attention, I just assumed it was a pair of the rather passionate one-eyed Moto Guzzi enthusiasts having an ego shoot-out (certainly the seller owes you a nice bottle of Scotch, I wouldn't be getting to cosy with the buyer if he finds out though).

I thought the MV was ambitious in the guide and was rather surprised that it got those bids - nice looking bike though.

Personally I wanted the petrol tank from the Manx Norton however the only bid exceeded my level by a factor of two (probably a good price though - especially in 20 or so years).

I left after the Rolls Royce was auctioned, it was the Fiat 500 Bambino that had me gobsmacked, it had an anticipated sell of $8 - $12k (normally an upper end price for one of these cars) and the hammer fell at about $18k, in the old days we had a few of these as customers in the workshop, they were cute but not that cute.

Andrew...
You should have said Hello Andrew :) I was wearing an MV jacket that would have been a hint :laughing:

Yes I am looking forward to perhaps meeting the seller but definitely NOT the buyer he will:nutkick: me. He was going to get it way too cheap at that price, I thought my wife can add to her V7 Racer and a have classic to go with her modern Guzzi- when it got expensive, I thought he could have it :laughing: I reckon he would have gone to $8500 + $500 hammer fee being $9000 I now regret not testing it BUT I could have wound up with a VERY expensive Stornello if I was wrong :eek:

The Fiat at $17200 + $1000 ($18200) hammer fee was INSANE - I could have got that guy one just a nice for $8K at last Auto Italia show.

I didn't see the bidders for the MV, do you think they were real bids or just stooge bidders? I am suspicious as the Auctioneer didn't go thru his MO it was two quick bids & passed in almost like he knew the bidders? Am I too cynical? I 'know' that doesn't happen - after all when it comes to money, auctioneers are totally above board and honest :laughing:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,172 Posts
Indeed it is Alex, for me it's also about body language and matching wits (the wrong reasons to be there I know), I was right at back at the side so I could see everyone and you get some fantastic clues of what people are going to do by watching them (obvioulsy they are not professional poker players) as they give everything away. Even the phone bidders, the hestitation, the promptness of reply all give you clues.
You should have said Hello Andrew :) I was wearing an MV jacket that would have been a hint :laughing:
Rob, being a pro at auctions, never gives any clues :naughty:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
576 Posts
I couldn't agree more. I never wear anything motorcycle, let alone MV at either auctions or indeed Italian 'Scambio's'. Unfortunatly i'm staring to get recognised these days even so...............maybe time to go in disgise:naughty:

On a personal note i love auctions. It really is like a game of poker, well the UK auctions are. Have you ever seen a US big bucks auction?....more like a circus!!

Dorian.
 

·
Cyber SPOTTER
Joined
·
6,101 Posts
Rob, being a pro at auctions, never gives any clues :naughty:
LOL - I think you missed my point. I wore the jacket deliberately (to cause a stir) as I had no intention whatsoever on bidding on the 350, in fact there was some surprise when I started (play) bidding on the Guzzi - but when I was checking out the MV I could see the others checking me & trying to eves drop on my conversations - just a little bit of mischief. Even sitting down I could see the people near surprise that I didn't bid on the "MV" it got too much for the guy in front me turned to me and asked why I didn't bid :laughing:

If I was serious about bidding on anything, I would not even have been there - I would have registered & been a phone bidder. You sets your limits & it takes the emotion completely out of it, it's far more clinical & no body gets a read on you ;)

Largely (from my experiences), auctions have people (not all) that haven't throughly researched the proposed purchase & get caught up in the moment - they completely forget the hammer fee while bidding & more often than not pay too much for something. Sure there are some marvellous buys at times but it's pretty hit & miss.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,172 Posts
LOL - I think you missed my point. I wore the jacket deliberately (to cause a stir) as I had no intention whatsoever on bidding on the 350, in fact there was some surprise when I started (play) bidding on the Guzzi - but when I was checking out the MV I could see the others checking me & trying to eves drop on my conversations - just a little bit of mischief. Even sitting down I could see the people near surprise that I didn't bid on the "MV" it got too much for the guy in front me turned to me and asked why I didn't bid :laughing:
:laughing: good one!

I can imagine the scene. The auctioneer thinking: I'm gonna start with a couple of fake high bids on the MV, then that dumb dude in the MV jacket will bite and we'll be in business.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top