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Discussion Starter #1
I found out this article in the LA times where an LA reporter has talked about how motorcycle frash fatalities are rising and along with motorcyclists dying, a lot of the crashes involve the death of car drivers.

An example is cited where a 21 yr old on a Suzuki GSXR 1000 rammed into a car - the result was the death of both the rider and car driver.

I read the article and I noticed 2 very unusual statements -

1. "That reflects an emerging motorcycle culture that embraces every possible danger factor: extreme speed, reckless behavior, alcohol impairment and many older riders past their prime, says Champagne"
In this statement I an agree with the fact that squids and those moronic programs shown on Speed TV account for some of the reckless behavior. However not all motorcyclists are like this, and certainly "many" older riders are definitely not past their prime.

The author further goes to blame the actions of one of their newspapers's own motorcycle reporter Susan Carpenter without taking her name. This statement "As I rocketed toward Angeles Crest Highway on California State Route 2 … I clicked into second, and cracked 100." was written by Susan Carpenter in her review of the MV Agusta F4 1000R.

In my opinion Susan Carpenter is a renowned and accomplished motorcyclist. I do not want to be flamed, but I think if she is going 100 in a 45 mph zone, she knows what she is doing.

My statement contradicts the reasoning of safety, but havent we also done such similar things, while being fully aware of our surrounding environment and cagers. There is a huge difference between riding in a isolated mountain road at high speeds and driving like a lunatic through crowded streets.

Just my 2 cents, but negative articles by reporters who only portray the gory and grisly details of a half baked idiot without stopping to think about the rest of the cautious and sane motorcyclists does nothing but add more fuel to fire.

I guess this debate about motorcycle safety will go on for a long time. :bandit:

I posted the link to the article below

http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-wheels29nov29,0,2975949.story?coll=la-class-autos-highway1
 

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Look at it from the other side. If you're driving the only person driving down Angeles Crest and a motorcycles zooms by at 100 mph, would you put your faith in that person's skill and judgement - even if it is an renowned and accomplished motorcyclist? And if we've all done it, it doesn't make it right.

Fair or not, that's the impression it leaves on the general public.
 

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Motorcycles are not safe, they never have been. It's the cultural phenomenon that has taken place in the last 20 years thats bring all this attention, good and bad, to the sport. Years ago, if you even knew someone with a motorcycle you were labeled as a risk taker, now everyone and their brother wants and or owns one. Alot of what is written about the dangers of motorcycling and the stupidity of modern riders is true, but it really isnt anything new.
 

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Yeah, back in the days we were considered rebels - deviants! Now, we're just a bunch of guys "past our prime" and in a midlife crisis. ;)
 

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Allan Gibbs said:
Yeah, back in the days we were considered rebels - deviants! Now, we're just a bunch of guys "past our prime" and in a midlife crisis. ;)

Speak for yourself pal, I'm 28! :stickpoke I just come from a long line of biker trash, and enjoy the stories of the "old days". :smoking:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hey,
This isny fair, I am still clutching onto 27. Cant wait for a mid life crisis - a Corvette and a 18yr old bimbo.
 

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What a bunch of crap. This guy is playing with the statistics to make his case.

True, motorcycle fatalities are up, but so is the number of registered bikes. Looking at the data, between 2003 and 2004, there was an 8% jump in the total number of fatalities, but there was a 7.65% increase in the number of registered bikes. The NORMALIZED fatality rate hardly moved.

Also, his seems to be forming his argument around the idea that sportbikes are to blame for this jump. Wrong again. First off, most sportbikes have engine displacements below 1000cc (there are exception: CBRXX, Hayabusa, ZX14, so on), but the biggest jump in the fatality rate is in the OVER 1000cc engine displacement!

The next data point to show that sportbikes are not the primary cause for the increase in fatalities is the distribution over age groups. As it turns out, the 40-44 age group had the biggest fatality rate increase.

It is worth noting that alcohol and the licensing status of the rider also plays a large factor.

The data seems to show that it is the over 40 cruiser biker who loads up on a few beers and is not licensed that is causing the spike.

Alex

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/TSF2005/MotorcyclesTSF05.pdf
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/293/3/287
 

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altoon said:
What a bunch of crap. This guy is playing with the statistics to make his case.

True, motorcycle fatalities are up, but so is the number of registered bikes. Looking at the data, between 2003 and 2004, there was an 8% jump in the total number of fatalities, but there was a 7.65% increase in the number of registered bikes. The NORMALIZED fatality rate hardly moved.

Also, his seems to be forming his argument around the idea that sportbikes are to blame for this jump. Wrong again. First off, most sportbikes have engine displacements below 1000cc (there are exception: CBRXX, Hayabusa, ZX14, so on), but the biggest jump in the fatality rate is in the OVER 1000cc engine displacement!

The next data point to show that sportbikes are not the primary cause for the increase in fatalities is the distribution over age groups. As it turns out, the 40-44 age group had the biggest fatality rate increase.

It is worth noting that alcohol and the licensing status of the rider also plays a large factor.

The data seems to show that it is the over 40 cruiser biker who loads up on a few beers and is not licensed that is causing the spike.

Alex

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/TSF2005/MotorcyclesTSF05.pdf
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/293/3/287

Word. Also, it fails to make any mention of riders that attend MSF courses or go on to hone their skills with advanced courses or track days. How many car drivers do this? How many had anything other than driver ed in high school? In fact, right now with the number of retired snow birds in Arizona for the winter, I'd wager that a high percentage of drivers here had no driver education at all.
 

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^^^This is a big one.

All the data I've ever seen on vehicular safety indicates that rider and driver training plays the biggest part in determining the likelihood of an accident. I wish there was a stronger emphasis on the training aspect.

This is one reason that some countries have a tiered licensing system. The idea is to give riders some experience on the road with a smaller displacement machine. Usually, some additional training is required before you can even test for the big bikes. And from what I understand, the test is pretty tough.


Alex
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Exactly,
I know atleast 70 people who went to a parking lot, learnt how to drive a car for 30 minutes, and then took their driving tests. The biggest surprise is all these guys got their licenses in their 2nd or 3rd test (I know of 3 guys who took the driving test 6 times before they passed it). These guys are driving on the road and probably are worse than any speeding motorcyclist. I believe motorcyclists are not the only ones who should take the blame - especially if you are trying to prove a point by taking just one example. For one incident of a motorcyclist ramming into a car, I can find out 100 incidents where cars have run into motorcycles. Categorizing all motorcycle riders as mid life crisis affected, beer bottle toting speed freaks who dont give a rat's ass for the law is a horribly wrong picture to portray.

I am ranting here, but I love motorcycling and hate any a**hole who tries to ruin it either by doing stupid tricks on the road or writing garbage on national newspapers.
 

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altoon said:
What a bunch of crap. This guy is playing with the statistics to make his case.


The data seems to show that it is the over 40 cruiser biker who loads up on a few beers and is not licensed that is causing the spike.

Alex
Bingo
 
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