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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

Any idea how these two tires compare?

I was planning on replacing my Rosso Corsa on my F3 with the Supercorsa SP ,but our local exchange rate has slumped and the local importer is charging astronomic prices for them (660$ for the set).

There are still a few Rosso Corsas and SuperCorsa SC2 going for the older price. Since I do ride road every now and then (sundays etc), I'm scared to put a set of race cut slicks on. I track day once or twice per month.

Any idea how the Michelin Power Supersport compare to the Rosso Corsa? Do they have a similar profile etc? The only reviews I could find of the Supersports were from a year ago when the tires were launched on a greasy track in Portugal (cold weather, damp etc.) and the reviewers said that the tires lacked grip...

Michelin are slightly more accessible than the Pirelli around here so I'd like to have some options for my replacement.
 

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All i can tell you is i run nothing but the supercorsa SP. They are more expensive and you get between 4000-5000km out of a set on the road if you use them on track less.

They are softest and give me the most grip and feel. I dont ever ride in tbe rain so im not worried about that.

I think there the best tyres for the road. If im on the track i use the dunlop ntechs UK version. There the best i think.


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I run the supersports. I get around 3000 miles out of a rear tyre with mainly road riding and 2 trackdays. Inc. One trackday session in heavy rain where I found surprisingly good level of grip. I find they give really good feedback and are very predictable.

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Dammit, so Dunlop is out of the question for 2-3 months (new importer).

I can get hold of a new SuperCorsa SP front, but to get an SP rear is near impossible. What do you think of if I get a Supercorsa SC2 Rear?

My logic tells me the SP front will warm up quicker (for road riding) than an SC front and the race cut slick SC2 rear isn't too much of an issue for road riding except for maybe the wear and the heat cycle thing.

Do you think mixing the SP front with the SC2 rear would be an issue on the track?

What about SP front with Rosso Corsa Rear?
 

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Sorry, I'm new but; hope I can join in the discussion here:

I just got to put in some canyon riding yesterday (just purchased it on Saturday) on my F4 and the first thing I noticed is that it wants to run wide (or stand up) in the corners requiring considerable more physical effort (and throttle control) to hold a clean line.

I also have an R1 and a while back I switched to a pair of Supercorsa SP and compared to the Michelin the Supercorsa on my R1 exhibited the same tendency to want to run wide (or stand up) in the corners. I quickly switched back to the Michelin and the R1 is much easier to ride in the corners and uses much less effort. I'm sure it has to do w/ the contour of the tire itself and not the "compound or tread pattern"!

I have about 1k mi to go before I need to replace my Supercorsa SP on my F4 but, I intend to try out the Michelin just to see if I get the same benefits as I did on the R1 "more stable line - less effort".
I know there are those who will only run what the bike came with or at least the same brand but, in my opinion; if Mexico actually made a better (fill in the blank).. I'd use that too.
-Davis
P.S. I was hoping to find a post where someone had tried the Michelin on their MV; thus having experience w/ both but, I found this thread first. I don't know how long (weather dictates) it will take me to wear down the Pirelli but, I will be sure to post up the results. I'm hoping that the switch to the Michelin will make my F4 more compliant; however, time (and testing) will tell !
P.P.S. The Dunlop Sportmax had the same "run wide" effect on my R1. . .
 

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Sorry, I'm new but; hope I can join in the discussion here:

I just got to put in some canyon riding yesterday (just purchased it on Saturday) on my F4 and the first thing I noticed is that it wants to run wide (or stand up) in the corners requiring considerable more physical effort (and throttle control) to hold a clean line.

I also have an R1 and a while back I switched to a pair of Supercorsa SP and compared to the Michelin the Supercorsa on my R1 exhibited the same tendency to want to run wide (or stand up) in the corners. I quickly switched back to the Michelin and the R1 is much easier to ride in the corners and uses much less effort. I'm sure it has to do w/ the contour of the tire itself and not the "compound or tread pattern"!

I have about 1k mi to go before I need to replace my Supercorsa SP on my F4 but, I intend to try out the Michelin just to see if I get the same benefits as I did on the R1 "more stable line - less effort".
I know there are those who will only run what the bike came with or at least the same brand but, in my opinion; if Mexico actually made a better (fill in the blank).. I'd use that too.
-Davis
P.S. I was hoping to find a post where someone had tried the Michelin on their MV; thus having experience w/ both but, I found this thread first. I don't know how long (weather dictates) it will take me to wear down the Pirelli but, I will be sure to post up the results. I'm hoping that the switch to the Michelin will make my F4 more compliant; however, time (and testing) will tell !
P.P.S. The Dunlop Sportmax had the same "run wide" effect on my R1. . .
It is possible that a different tyre can have this affect, due to profile and construction. It is however easy to tune this out by just adjusting the suspension a little bit at a time, like adding a bit of ride height at the rear, either by adding some pre-load or just extending the ride height adjuster itself.
That is the most basic way to get around this tendency.
 

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I have been running Michelin Power One 2ct front/rear and to date it has been hands down better than the stock Pirelli's that came with my 2012 f4r. I do very little highway and try to always go the back ways so lots of turns in and out, few trips to devils gap and shady grove in NC and I love Them. Donsy is dead on with the changes to either ride height or pre load as I felt the same problem. It actually lead me to upgrade to a ohlins rear ttx shock which is by far one of the best upgrades I have done.


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Hey Donsy & Dag; appreciate the input, I'll try adding 2cm of ride height rear and drop the forks 1cm (semi extreme but, just for testing purposes) and take her back out next Sunday to the same canyon (only about 10min from my house) and see if that doesn't make a difference? I don't think I want to go much more then that as it will add quite a bit of stress on my wrists; I'm 6.2" tall so, I'm already at a good bit of an angle!

Any other suggestions?

As is; I've already backed the "pre-load" off quite a bit. It was rather harsh when I got it: the suspension is now compliant ie; no bottoming out / no topping out / good damping, and no more rear end stutter over small "chatter" bumps in the road. Though, I do still get the rear end to step out a bit on hard lean - down shifts.

Thanks again for all of the input: I hope the "thread starter" PTsalas, doesn't feel I've stolen his original thread: we can move it / or I can start a new thread if he so desires !?!
-Davis
 

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Hey Donsy & Dag; appreciate the input, I'll try adding 2cm of ride height rear and drop the forks 1cm (semi extreme but, just for testing purposes) and take her back out next Sunday to the same canyon (only about 10min from my house) and see if that doesn't make a difference? I don't think I want to go much more then that as it will add quite a bit of stress on my wrists; I'm 6.2" tall so, I'm already at a good bit of an angle!

Any other suggestions?

As is; I've already backed the "pre-load" off quite a bit. It was rather harsh when I got it: the suspension is now compliant ie; no bottoming out / no topping out / good damping, and no more rear end stutter over small "chatter" bumps in the road. Though, I do still get the rear end to step out a bit on hard lean - down shifts.

Thanks again for all of the input: I hope the "thread starter" PTsalas, doesn't feel I've stolen his original thread: we can move it / or I can start a new thread if he so desires !?!
-Davis
You need to have a good look at how the suspension works, taking pre-load out at the back has dropped the back, that's why you're running wide. Dropping the front by a cm is way too much, your tyre might start hitting the radiator. Do one setting at a time.

To adjust for harshness one would measure and set up rider sag, then probably start working on re-bound and compression damping settings.

Downshifting while leaning over hard, hmmm.
 

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Hey Dons, thanks once again for the quick reply and information!
I've never raced on a "hard surface" but, have raced for many a year on dirt. It's been a while ('94-'95 my final dirt racing) but, back when I did race dirt we set up our bikes w/ what we called "race sag". That is the reference to the first adjustment made and relating to the rear of the bike: We measured the bike from rear axle to the seat bolt (un-loaded), then we had a buddy hold the bike up-right, get the rider on the bike and measured the distance again from the rear axle to the seat bolt. We then adjusted the "pre-load" to 100mm exactly. After that we would first test the bikes ability to corner. Secondly we would raise or lower the forks to what was a good combination of turning and straight line stability. Thirdly we would adjust both ends for either bottoming - topping or stuttering (hard breaking traction loss = front stuttering / hard acceleration - traction loss = rear stuttering). We tuned that out w/ less compression and rebound damping on a tight track or adding more rebound on a soft rolling track (compression doesn't really change from indoor to outdoor / sand dunes being the only exception). Once you had a "balance" of those it was just up to which track you were on and finite adjustments: supercross style "tight" track lower the forks / out door motocross w/ long wide open straights - raise the forks and add a bit of rear pre-load.
I realize that on the road is a similar scenario but, one I'm not adept at. I just took a quick trek down to my garage and see that the upper triple clamp is asymmetrical; the inner fork tube is showing about (didn't caliper it) 3mm where as the outer is showing almost 1cm as is.
Additionally; I looked at the R1 w/ the Michelin and the MV w/ the Perelli and there is quite a difference in the contour of the tire; the Perelli shows a very slow / gradual curve where as the Michelin shows almost an "apex" at the center w/ a quick falling off of the curve. Both being 120/70 rating.
That all said; one question: where do I start w/ the rear "sag"?
Thanks a "ton" for all of your help thus far! -Davis
 

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Okay Davis, great to hear you have a very sound concept on how suspension works. Download the workshop manual for your bike from my website, it will give you a good idea on where to start. Just don't try and find 100 mm sag on a road bike...
Front and back is different for road bikes, and can be anywhere between 25 and 40 mm depending on type of terrain, and front often the bigger figure compared to the rear.
 

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Hi Pilot,you haven't mentioned the tyre pressures your running,the factory recommends 33psi,with my Sportsmart/Ntec tyres i'm down to fr30-r28 and getting great feel,different tyre i know but i've heard SP's respond well to less pressure,may help with understeer and ride and obviously quick and simple before geometry changes.Cheers Steve
 

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Hi Pilot,you haven't mentioned the tyre pressures your running,the factory recommends 33psi,with my Sportsmart/Ntec tyres i'm down to fr30-r28 and getting great feel,different tyre i know but i've heard SP's respond well to less pressure,may help with understeer and ride and obviously quick and simple before geometry changes.Cheers Steve
I'll get out the "digital" and check; it's been a while: a little lower pressure might help a bit; I don't know at which point you can "bust a bead" but, I'd rather not know!?! :thewife:

Usually; I run at the (tire) factory stated settings. Past experience: if my bike sits for a bit it will loose some air but, I usually feel it right away (sluggish steering at low speeds) and ad psi back to the stated psi for the tire. IMO if (I) have a semi low air press: I start to feel it as "negative" feedback & especially when breaking w/ the bike at any lean angle.

The front gets a little "vague", not a "happy" feeling & and a little worse then "under steer".

As far as "suggestions & input" here in the forum: I'm not opposed to trying suggestions. This is my first MV and I do appreciate all input! :yo:

I previously posted that I'd raced off road quite a bit (and never on the road) but, I however; have never stopped "road" riding since my early RD350B (purchased 2yrs old when I was 15). In a quick reference; I'm sure I've owned and upgraded my street bikes every two to three years for the last thirty years (that's a lot of bikes).

That said; I've never been on an "official track" on a street bike so, I can't express thanks enough for all of the great suggestions and feedback I've received here:
Thanks Steve!
-Davis
 

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Okay Davis, great to hear you have a very sound concept on how suspension works. Download the workshop manual for your bike from my website, it will give you a good idea on where to start. Just don't try and find 100 mm sag on a road bike...
Front and back is different for road bikes, and can be anywhere between 25 and 40 mm depending on type of terrain, and front often the bigger figure compared to the rear.
Donsy: I do in fact understand & comprehend how suspension works on motorcycles. Like I said: I raced dirt, indoor and outdoor for many-many years. But, the setup for a street bike to be "compliant" (where you want) will require very different thinking.
I really appreciate your replies and will download your workshop manual and give a "start over": go from there.

I still; given my past experience w/ different tires, think I could just resolve this w/ a tire change that better suits what I'm used to however, w/ the price of tires: I'm going to experiment w/ all of your suggestions. Try as many set-up options & try to find out if these differences can be "ride compliant" through suspension and chassis settings vs tire changes.
I work 14hrs a day 5 days a week so; that only gives me Saturdays to setup and Sundays to test.
Thanks again so much for your help: -Davis
 
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