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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
hi guys,

unfortunately that i will share something not so good :( this pics will tell you..

picture :



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

the vid :

http://youtu.be/bUQI6DbBUmc

this happened once before, at 400 - 500 km, when i turned the engine off, and restart it came up no more...

but now (676 km), this error message keep coming everytime i ride for a while, the lights blipping and the gas response become weird, like it can not be opened thru certain degree... because of the ride-by-wire i guess...

i need help :banghead:problems just keep coming...
 

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hi guys,

unfortunately that i will share something not so good :( this pics will tell you..

picture :



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

the vid :

http://youtu.be/bUQI6DbBUmc

this happened once before, at 400 - 500 km, when i turned the engine off, and restart it came up no more...

but now (676 km), this error message keep coming everytime i ride for a while, the lights blipping and the gas response become weird, like it can not be opened thru certain degree... because of the ride-by-wire i guess...

i need help :banghead:problems just keep coming...
Similar problem at approximately 400 miles, 'Engine Malfunction' would not increase power. Stopped, switched off, waited two/three minutes. All o/k since. Sorry not much help though
 

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it has begun..
mine have Speed limiter Malfunction and always blinking yellow lamp
and false gear indicator
 

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Won't rev because ECU is in a "safe" mode to prevent possible engine damage. Normally these type intermittent problems are caused by poor wiring connections and not an actual sensor failure. Most sensors are on a 5 volt very low amperage circuit so any unusual voltage drop is read as a fault by the ECU.

That said, the Japanese brands have occasionally enjoyed faulty gear position sensors and throttle position sensors among others.....

Welcome to the high tech world. Your dealer should be able to sort it all out (if they have an actually competent technician).
 

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From experience with an RSV4 with a similar electronic set up the ecu constantly monitors/cross checks values coming from the (on the RSV4 the 'demand sensor') thats the thing the throttle cables are attached to, on the RSV4 that alone has 4 channels (2 different voltages, and an increasing and decreasing signal from each.

Plus feedback from the throttle bodies, the ecu sends out a position it requires of the throttle bodies, again each throttle body has 2 feedback voltages of different values again +ve and -ve, so one may be going 0v-5v but also 5v-0v at the same time, whilst the 2nd one is doing the same but with 0v-3v and 3v-0v

If any do not match in the ecu you have a push bike :jsm:

I'll just attach a screenshot of the channels available on the RSV4, look at the overlaid box (Channel 1) and where the slider bar is on the RH side, that will give you an idea of just how complex these systems are......................scary!!
 

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From experience with an RSV4 with a similar electronic set up the ecu constantly monitors/cross checks values coming from the (on the RSV4 the 'demand sensor') thats the thing the throttle cables are attached to, on the RSV4 that alone has 4 channels (2 different voltages, and an increasing and decreasing signal from each.

Plus feedback from the throttle bodies, the ecu sends out a position it requires of the throttle bodies, again each throttle body has 2 feedback voltages of different values again +ve and -ve, so one may be going 0v-5v but also 5v-0v at the same time, whilst the 2nd one is doing the same but with 0v-3v and 3v-0v

If any do not match in the ecu you have a push bike :jsm:

I'll just attach a screenshot of the channels available on the RSV4, look at the overlaid box (Channel 1) and where the slider bar is on the RH side, that will give you an idea of just how complex these systems are......................scary!!
I was informed there is a recall on the on demand sensor. Thanks for the explanation btw. I guess goes with the territory since these modern bikes nowadays are packed with computers the Apollo space missions would have been proud of!
 

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I had a few electrical faults on my last bike but only after riding it in the rain. it went to the dealer and
exposed connectors were insulated, the crank sensor was at the back of the engine in front of the
swing arm.

Don't modern ecu's work off resistence signals from sensors? could moisture be causing the problem? Or as suggested a loose connection or bad earth can cause engine managment faults.

to the dealer you must go :-(

No such faults with mine yet but only done 580 miles and all in the dry, the diagnostic equipent should
be able to pin point what has caused the problem.
 

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Maybe 'Gas Position' message = TPS(Throttle Position Sensor) malfunction?

I had an error code relating to the 02 sensor. Unplugged it and checked for water/dirt (nothing visible btw), plugged back in and rechecked for errors.
 

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Don't modern ecu's work off resistence signals from sensors? could moisture be causing the problem? Or as suggested a loose connection or bad earth can cause engine managment faults.
No....The ECU's work off of voltage signals, most of which come from some form of a variable resistance. Some a mechanical variance (air pressure sensors), and some a center tap on a circuit that grounds back to the ECU (TPS).

Those sensors that get their voltage supply from the ECU work at a 5 volt potential (very common). A few may have battery voltage supply and ground to the ECU with the sensor voltage drop being the signal.

Any sensor with 3 wires is likely powered by and grounded through the ECU with the third wire as the signal source. 2 wire sensors such as the Coolant or Air Temp sensors are thermisters whose resistance (and voltage drop) change with temperature, or pressure sensors with a mechanically changed internal resistance such as MAP or Air Pressure Sensors.

Of course, there are lots of variables depending on the manufacturer and the design engineers.

Most of the active devices controlled by the ECU work on Battery voltage with the ECU as the ground circuit. (Injectors, etc).

The most common cause of sensor related problems on modern bikes is poor connections causing voltage drops that the ECU sees as a failure.

The most common cause for a technician tearing his hair out on an ill performing EFI bike (a standard bike that no one has been modifying and tweaking when they don't know what they are doing) is a voltage drop on a sensor that is not bad enough to cause a fault code (MIL or Check Engine light) but causes the ECU calculations to be wrong.

When you are dealing with only 5 volts and milli-amps of current it doesn't take much of a short or open to create havoc.
 

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stemv, the question is "What do you want" from your motorcycle? The latest appearance, electronics and the most high-end HP? then it's the F3. No, you want the time-proven solution and more refinement? Triumph 675.
 

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No....The ECU's work off of voltage signals, most of which come from some form of a variable resistance.
.
All modern 'TPS' variable type resistance come from magnetic sensors these days, the old carbon track stuff has gone :)
 

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I was informed there is a recall on the on demand sensor. Thanks for the explanation btw. I guess goes with the territory since these modern bikes nowadays are packed with computers the Apollo space missions would have been proud of!
Demand sensor is the black round looking thing attached to the LH frame tube just in front of your knee, odd how the throttle cables only go into there? yet it feels 'normal'
 

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f3 or daytona 675?
Sold my 675SE after 15 months having covered 10,000 miles. As reported before, road holding, brakes and power superior on the F3. Gear shift the same. 675 easier to ride in towns. Depending as to what you are looking for, but for excitement and style there is only one winner, F3. Reliability that can only be answered in a matter of time. But so far after each ride I have come home with a smile on my face.
 

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All modern 'TPS' variable type resistance come from magnetic sensors these days, the old carbon track stuff has gone :)
Not all.....but yes, there are some magnetic sensors out there too...and hall affect transistors for pulse generation...
 

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No....The ECU's work off of voltage signals, most of which come from some form of a variable resistance. Some a mechanical variance (air pressure sensors), and some a center tap on a circuit that grounds back to the ECU (TPS).

Those sensors that get their voltage supply from the ECU work at a 5 volt potential (very common). A few may have battery voltage supply and ground to the ECU with the sensor voltage drop being the signal.

Any sensor with 3 wires is likely powered by and grounded through the ECU with the third wire as the signal source. 2 wire sensors such as the Coolant or Air Temp sensors are thermisters whose resistance (and voltage drop) change with temperature, or pressure sensors with a mechanically changed internal resistance such as MAP or Air Pressure Sensors.

Of course, there are lots of variables depending on the manufacturer and the design engineers.

Most of the active devices controlled by the ECU work on Battery voltage with the ECU as the ground circuit. (Injectors, etc).

The most common cause of sensor related problems on modern bikes is poor connections causing voltage drops that the ECU sees as a failure.

The most common cause for a technician tearing his hair out on an ill performing EFI bike (a standard bike that no one has been modifying and tweaking when they don't know what they are doing) is a voltage drop on a sensor that is not bad enough to cause a fault code (MIL or Check Engine light) but causes the ECU calculations to be wrong.

When you are dealing with only 5 volts and milli-amps of current it doesn't take much of a short or open to create havoc.
Good answer, very intersting and informative, thank you
 

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Discussion Starter #19
hi all, thanks for all the comment... but i am a noob.. so.. may one of you give more simple explanation? :) what do i need to do... because my dealer need time to get to my place... with no exact schedule :(
 
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