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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, gals
After another cold NYC winter and the remnants of yet another Chinese made motorcycle battery it appears I'm in the market for a more reputable better made product for the job.

Was starting to just now look into some of the lighter weight options in the hopes of shaving a couple of pounds at the same time.

Anyone have any experience with these or can shed any light on their day to day operation characteristics?
 

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My only thing to note about having a SHORAI for a while is it is hesitant to start when cold. I mean really cold, dead of winter cold. But attempting to start it up seems to warm the battery up. So the first time I can crank a couple of seconds and it acts dead, but then wait a sec and try again and it fires right up like a new battery.

Otherwise I love it, starts faster than the liquid battery ever did. One note though, since they are individual cells its recommended to get a bespoke charger to "condition" the battery. They warranty with a deltran charger but prefer using their own. I put mine on it ever few weeks for a night in the hopes that the conditioning will lengthen the life.
 

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My mechanic bought into the LI-ion battery craze and suggested it to everyone that came in for a battery update. Soon a lot of people started coming in with issues with the battery and he eventually lost faith and started to provide free replacements with a standard battery.

Google it and you'll find loads of information on these issues, seems like these batteries have some R&D still needed to bring them up to market standard.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
My mechanic bought into the LI-ion battery craze and suggested it to everyone that came in for a battery update. Soon a lot of people started coming in with issues with the battery and he eventually lost faith and started to provide free replacements with a standard battery.

Google it and you'll find loads of information on these issues, seems like these batteries have some R&D still needed to bring them up to market standard.
This would be my general concern in this, along with having to try and boost it or merge technologies with a conventional charger in a bind.
 

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There's no such thing as a Lithium Ion motorcycle battery, they're Lithium Iron or LiFe batteries. There's a huge difference in chemistry, voltage, the way they're assembled, and fire risk.

Lithium Ion nominal voltage is 3.7 per cell x4 = 14.8v
Lithium Iron nominal voltage is 3.3 per cell x4 =13.2v

Lithium Ion batteries are more prone to fires because of their chemestry and the way they have to be assembled. They do not like to be overcharged either.

Lithium Iron (LiFe) batteries are the most stable out of Li-ion, LiFe, Li-Poly. They don't mind being overcharged either. This is why the motorcycle industry has choosen LiFe. Don't ask me why Boeing didn't? (787). Bad decision on their part.

Anyway, read up on them, there's tons of data online.

The only reason I'm hesitant on installing them in my bikes is the poor starting when cold attribute.
 

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I've got a Speedcell lithium Ferrous P4 on my F4, now is going 2yrs and it still working just fine, we don't get too cold around here on Central Coast CA, but I do have times that it will not start the bike because the air is colder and the battery too.

I always disconnect it after rides, and keep inside of the house where is warmer and even them sometimes it is hard to start the bike, but I learned that if I warm it up it will start the bike on the first crank, I put the battery in a clear plastic grocery bag in the sun and it warm it up in 15-20 minutes and I hook it up on the bike-quick connector provider when I bought the battery, it works every time.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Cold Weather Starts

Yes this would be my other concern in this, coming from the New York City area where we are seasoned and have seasonal type weather every year, with normally some pretty cold days coming through in the winter, but even quite a few "colder" days in the fall or other times of the year,. where we still like to ride but need to be geared up accordingly.

I understand that this topic has come up here before and may even god forbid come up here again and with this I am certainly open to having this topic moved elsewhere on the forum if anyone feels so inclined in having it done. I also appreciate all the due-diligence already done here on this by others, here on the forum (sincerely), but don't know personally if I see this issue as completely resolved just yet, or that cut and dry, in terms of a topic not needing or requiring any further consideration.

What I mean by that or why I'm saying this is:
Example: After having viewed Donsy's link I felt pretty strongly that the units built with the charging mechanism built inside them, meant to keep each of the individual cells enclosed balanced, seem to make the most sense, as did the seeker who had been asking at that time, but by the end of the thread he or she seem to still end up navigating back toward the Shorai unit anyway. Which I know is the most popular in this segment of course but I'm not so sure makes the most practical sense especially when factor in the separate charger needed and when(not if) you eventually need a remote location boost, or jump start, away from your home when you don't have the proprietary charging apparatus even with you, or you happen to be at the track on a colder day shit out of luck,.. without the bike willing to start,. etc,.. or get caught in a storm etc, with both a dead battery, your pants down/missing lost,.. (no pants) and a whole in your boots, during a hurricane etc. Hey shit happens,.. right? ;)

In mild seriousness though:
After fooling around for awhile with different flee-bay/bag Chinese made crap of every color scheme and type in the world for batteries and everything else under the sun,.. it's kind lost it's fun for me. buying questionable crap for 25 dollars less then ideal, because it's 25 dollars less and were supposed to all be stupid.

I'd now like to, really like to get something near full-proof, with near full-proof performance, in real world performance type situations(i.e life)- NYC tough and able to handle a little cold,.. chill,..sniffle's,.cough, cough ;) but still get the job done, day in and day out like a real man!.. I mean battery :) You know what I mean ;)

That doesn't need a whole gaggle of supplemental parts, accessories and the alike just to keep functional or reliable. That's all. Simple

Is that asking too much?






*No serious question:
Is that asking too much? unrealistic maybe? Not now- maybe later?
Go buy a solar-panel and tape it to your back kid type of thing maybe?
Really not sure.
 

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I'll have another go.

Yes this would be my other concern in this, coming from the New York City area where we are seasoned and have seasonal type weather every year, with normally some pretty cold days coming through in the winter, but even quite a few "colder" days in the fall or other times of the year,. where we still like to ride but need to be geared up accordingly.

Cold weather starts are a problem most of the time, only because most guys do not understand or refuse to understand the difference in chemical make-up of the Li battery as apposed to the old stuff. watch this please - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBfvR1EJJBk
:smoking:

I understand that this topic has come up here before and may even god forbid come up here again and with this I am certainly open to having this topic moved elsewhere on the forum if anyone feels so inclined in having it done.

The only reason for this to be moved to another section, is because it's not only a F4 related question, but also applies to other models on the forum, and should be seen by guys from other models who do no frequent the F4 section. :)


I also appreciate all the due-diligence already done here on this by others, here on the forum (sincerely), but don't know personally if I see this issue as completely resolved just yet, or that cut and dry, in terms of a topic not needing or requiring any further consideration.

What I mean by that or why I'm saying this is:
Example: After having viewed Donsy's link I felt pretty strongly that the units built with the charging mechanism built inside them, meant to keep each of the individual cells enclosed balanced, seem to make the most sense, as did the seeker who had been asking at that time, but by the end of the thread he or she seem to still end up navigating back toward the Shorai unit anyway. Which I know is the most popular in this segment of course but I'm not so sure makes the most practical sense especially when factor in the separate charger needed and when(not if) you eventually need a remote location boost, or jump start, away from your home when you don't have the proprietary charging apparatus even with you, or you happen to be at the track on a colder day shit out of luck,.. without the bike willing to start,. etc,.. or get caught in a storm etc, with both a dead battery, your pants down/missing lost,.. (no pants) and a whole in your boots, during a hurricane etc. Hey shit happens,.. right? ;)

In mild seriousness though:
After fooling around for awhile with different flee-bay/bag Chinese made crap of every color scheme and type in the world for batteries and everything else under the sun,.. it's kind lost it's fun for me. buying questionable crap for 25 dollars less then ideal, because it's 25 dollars less and were supposed to all be stupid.

I'd now like to, really like to get something near full-proof, with near full-proof performance, in real world performance type situations(i.e life)- NYC tough and able to handle a little cold,.. chill,..sniffle's,.cough, cough ;) but still get the job done, day in and day out like a real man!.. I mean battery :) You know what I mean ;)

That doesn't need a whole gaggle of supplemental parts, accessories and the alike just to keep functional or reliable. That's all. Simple

Is that asking too much?






*No serious question:
Is that asking too much? unrealistic maybe? Not now- maybe later?
Go buy a solar-panel and tape it to your back kid type of thing maybe?
Really not sure.
The difference in my opinion in why people go to the batteries which do not have the internal BMS, is simply price and availability, not too many around, and very dear.
But, when you do buy a battery with the capability to have it's cell's externally charged/balanced once or twice a year, and you buy the charger to suit, the price often works out similar.

Good luck in your quest MV1, I'm pretty confident you'll find what you're looking for somewhere down the line.
 

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I think the cold start deficency of lithium batteries has something to do with not understanding the true nature of those batteries.
We are used to turn the key and push the starter button on our lead acid bricks.
Shorai is telling You to switch on the lights for a few seconds before hitting the starter.
This to give the battery some draw to warm the battery for optimized starting power.
Especially on colder days.
 

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I guess that is one reason I never noticed it last year, although our winters are hardly bad. I tended to turn ignition on when backing it out, then fire it up. On the coldest of the cold days I would hit it once and it might seem dead but on the second hit it fired right up without issue.

As cold as 16f I can say that you shouldn't have a problem, at least not if you have a 750 :)
 

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Here is my 2c on lithium batteries.

They are WORTH IT!!!!!!!

I got sick of replacing/recharging the lead acid battery on my mv. I believe these bikes have some type of a draw even then the bike is off.

When you store the bike even with the battery disconnected for a couple of months, lead acid cells will die enough to not start the bike. This is very annoying.


Pros:
very little self discharge,
a 12 cell pack only weights about 2 pounds,
a whole lot of cranking amps
bike seems to turn over much faster.

Cons:
if you discharge the pack under 10V, you will damaging the pack permanently. Not a fire or explosion, but damage as in the pack will no longer hold charge. So be careful not to kill the pack by leaving your keys on.

Cold whether might cause the pack to not fire your bike up on the first try. As stated above, turn on the key and leave it alone for a few seconds for your headlight to draw some power from the pack, then crank. Not a problem in SoCal though.

Price! They are not very cheap.


Now taking all of these into consideration, the pack really performs well and it very much worth it in my opinion.

Here is what I have on my bike. http://www.ebay.com/itm/4s3p-A123-motorcycle-battery-quick-connector-13-2v6-9ah-/200869600284?pt=US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item2ec4c2dc1c

It comes with the heavy duty connector you see in the pics. I always disconnect the pack using that plug so the bike doesn't kill the battery whenever I am don't with the ride for the day. You don't have to disconnect if you ride your bike every day. I would only disconnect if you are not going to ride for longer than 3 days.

Hope this helps.
 

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Sounds like a P.I.T.A. to me.
 

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How so? It's the same failures that you can get with the stock battery too. Except this battery doesn't self discharge like the lead acid battery does so you can come back to your bike even 2 years later, plug the battery in and crank it up without needing to recharge it. Oh and it's the cheapest way to shave 5 pounds from your bike. Lol
 

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I agree with the weight savings, but in 40 + years of motorcycle ownership, I have never had a lead acid battery fail to start my bike...until the POS Koyo battery in my wife's 2010 Brutale 1090RR.

I am still on the original Yuasa in my 2007 312R.

It's not worth the five pounds to me to have to remove a battery when its cold outside.

I don't know anyone on here who would benefit from that sort of weight reduction on their bike....

As for personal weight reduction, that we could all use.
 
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