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Discussion Starter #1
I am impressed about the amount of threads talking about PCIII for road bikes. :jsm:
For sure any bike can be fine tuned but the weather change (rain, heat, dry air, air density etc...) so you need to readjust the engine again and again to keep your "fine tuning settings".
Race bikes are adjusted for the race day condition to get the best of the engine under certain weather condition.
My opinion is that for road use the factory settings are good enouth. I spend a litle time to adjust my F4 (factory settings) for our weather here in Kuwait and the bike runs very well (no cat connecting pipe). Throttle bodies (new air screw setting), synchro, EPROM and very important the CO% with a good gas analizer.
Sorry guys but I am not convice :cross: that your F4 PCIII bike will run much better that mine. ;)
 

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desmolight said:
Sorry guys but I am not convice :cross: that your F4 PCIII bike will run much better that mine. ;)

I think people are using a PCIII instead of a proper setup in many cases? It may be easier to find a dyno shop who can tune a PCIII than to find an MV mechanic who can do the same - properly? Of course there is running 'right' and then running 'better'...
 

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JamesC said:
I think people are using a PCIII instead of a proper setup in many cases? It may be easier to find a dyno shop who can tune a PCIII than to find an MV mechanic who can do the same - properly? Of course there is running 'right' and then running 'better'...
Just to add a little to this discussion, these are the values the dyno shop came up with from the PC set up on my 1000S, percentage throttle opening across the top, and just the one engine speed at 6250rpm, the percentage added fuel in the 0, 2, and 5% allows the throttle to lose it's on/off feeeling, the other figures speak for themselves, if some one out there can tune my bike to supply a 23% difference in fuel supply with a set up alone I would be very interested in employing them :stickpoke
Most PC maps end up like this, surely if it wa just "set up" all the fuel figures would be similar?

,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 00 2 5 10 20 40 60 80 100%
6250rpm, 15 15 10 00 16 -3 -2 08 20
 

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I think this will come down to our opinions of right and better?

It seems to me his post and some others are talking about having to use a PCIII to make a bike run properly when instead a lot of these things can be done with setup. Certainly if a PCIII can't fix a 5k flat spot then neither can a base setup but a setup can fix stalling, rough off idle and abrupt throttle. I think too many people are jumping ahead before having a solid base?
 

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JamesC said:
I think this will come down to our opinions of right and better?

It seems to me his post and some others are talking about having to use a PCIII to make a bike run properly when instead a lot of these things can be done with setup. Certainly if a PCIII can't fix a 5k flat spot then neither can a base setup but a setup can fix stalling, rough off idle and abrupt throttle. I think too many people are jumping ahead before having a solid base?
Yeah, I would agree with that James, a lot of people seem to fit them for an out of sync/badly tuned bike, you do need to get the foundations right first! Also from what I hear and read in between the lines you also need a dyno centre that knows how to set the PC up properly, I am able to watch and join in with the lad who has done my last two bikes, he's very good, he just works through all the throttle points and stores them all, then adjusts them all and repeats the one's that are not correct.

He also at the end performed a through the gears run and the A/F ratio was dead straight, very impressive :)
 

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mikef4uk said:
Yeah, I would agree with that James, a lot of people seem to fit them for an out of sync/badly tuned bike, you do need to get the foundations right first! Also from what I hear and read in between the lines you also need a dyno centre that knows how to set the PC up properly, I am able to watch and join in with the lad who has done my last two bikes, he's very good, he just works through all the throttle points and stores them all, then adjusts them all and repeats the one's that are not correct.

He also at the end performed a through the gears run and the A/F ratio was dead straight, very impressive :)
mike, I totally agree with you. Such a dyno setup lasts a whole day and needs a mechanic who knows what he is doinig - only for the people thinking of doing this... and this is the best you can do for your bike...

my a/f ratio before and after: :smoking:
 

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Now you are confusing me guys :confused: Am I better off with a good base set up and no PC or both or neither???
 

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A good base setup is a precondition to get the best for your bike with the PCIII. You can also get the best result with a custom EPROM, but it´s more easy to adjust the PC...
 

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If I remove the cat do I need a chip?

I imagine that the removal of the cat will allow the bike to run a bit lean.

Will this burn out the exhaust valves if I do not change the fuel settings with a new PC chip?

The bike according to the exhaust seems to always run rich! I believe the exhausts should show a light grey colour after a good run in the country but mine are always black as if it is running too rich!
 

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My Brutale before and after the pcr111 - see for yourself. Running much better, more fuel efficient, more power and most importantly more driveability especially when picking up the throttle from closed.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
JamesC said:
I think this will come down to our opinions of right and better?

It seems to me his post and some others are talking about having to use a PCIII to make a bike run properly when instead a lot of these things can be done with setup. Certainly if a PCIII can't fix a 5k flat spot then neither can a base setup but a setup can fix stalling, rough off idle and abrupt throttle. I think too many people are jumping ahead before having a solid base?

That is the point James and thanks to translate my French/English into a English that people can understand. I need more practice/threads !
I agree that a PCIII can give more power (fine tuning) It will be interesting to see power test print using only adjustment possibilities of the bike. Throttle bodies and A/F using the pod in the ECU. Shame that I don't have a dyno bench but you can believe me that you don't need a dyno to see the difference. You feel it by riding the bike. I was impressed how different the bike is with different setups. It looks like that the F4 is very sensitive about setup. I have no stalling, smoth throttle, impressive torque and good top end power.
A PCIII is a "fine Tuning" unit and not a tool to fix a bad ECU.
What I want to say is that it is worth to spend time to start from the begining, to do a good "base setup", before going to play with a PCIII.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
john said:
Now you are confusing me guys :confused: Am I better off with a good base set up and no PC or both or neither???
First your bike should run properly (base setup) then better (PCIII) if you need.
 

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Manufacturers have the ability to make these bikes run perfectly, but the emission constraints force them to alter settings (mostly at lower throttle positions) to pass these clean air requirements. As a result, bikes usually run poorly.

The PC can "fix" many poorly setup bikes, but best results come when you tune a bike that is set up good, then "tweaked" with the PC.

Not one person has asked me to remove a Power Commander because they thought it was a waste of money or did nothing. But, they are only as good as the tuner.
 

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I removed the Cat from my system and have not done any additional tuning....below 4k the bike seems to run the same....above and it is more of a beast....i don't think i need to worry about tuning until i get the RG-3.....I would like to see a PCIII map for the f4-1000 posted..
 

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It is such a bad bike that makes us spend money and money and money, even after having it nicely on our garage, and keep smilling everyday we remmember we have one!
really a bad bike, dont you think?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
psst!!!... said:
It is such a bad bike that makes us spend money and money and money, even after having it nicely on our garage, and keep smilling everyday we remmember we have one!
really a bad bike, dont you think?
Since I ride bikes (22 years), the F4 and the Brutale are fare the best and most exiting bikes that I never had. :hump:
The MVs comes from another planet.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
airfuel said:
Manufacturers have the ability to make these bikes run perfectly, but the emission constraints force them to alter settings (mostly at lower throttle positions) to pass these clean air requirements. As a result, bikes usually run poorly.

The PC can "fix" many poorly setup bikes, but best results come when you tune a bike that is set up good, then "tweaked" with the PC.

Not one person has asked me to remove a Power Commander because they thought it was a waste of money or did nothing. But, they are only as good as the tuner.
I agree that the bikes run poorly because of the emission rules. What about RG3 and the EPROM ? This parts are for the track so I guess there is no restriction anymore ? How is it ?
 
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