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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone have access to or know the injector dwell time for the upper and lower F4 injectors in a 2010+ bike?

I am looking for the dwell or lag time and voltage compensation table, there isn't much available online when searching by the injector model numbers. The only thing I know is that it is a licensed bosch style injector with a denso style plug on it.
 

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The injector dwell is set by the ECU.
 

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What he said. ^^^ You will need to read the ECU map.

On the Jap bikes I am familiar with the secondary injectors do not spray at all below certain throttle/rpm points
 

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Discussion Starter #4
the injector dwell, lag, or dead time is a physical characteristic of the individual injector itself, and it changes depending on what the voltage applied to the injector is. You set this value in the ecu, but it must match the physical characteristic of the injector, or you tuning parameters and compensations will not be accurate.

The literal definition could be described as the time in ms below which the injector does not fire, it is used to define the lag between when the current is applied and when the injector actually fires.
 

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Al, I think you'd have to get that from the manufacturer website.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Al, I think you'd have to get that from the manufacturer website.
First place i looked, but to no avail. That is why I am asking here, in case one of the members at the pointy end of the stick on the electronics end has access to the information. You'd need this information if you were mapping an ecu that wasn't initially set up for an F4, so something outsider of a microtec basically.
 

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Does anyone have access to or know the injector dwell time for the upper and lower F4 injectors in a 2010+ bike?
I am looking for the dwell or lag time and voltage compensation table, there isn't much available online when searching by the injector model numbers. The only thing I know is that it is a licensed bosch style injector with a denso style plug on it.
You should read the part numbers of the injector and post them here for anybody to be able to give a usefull answer.
For example B4 750's Magneti PICO IWP048 has a deadtime of approximately 0.808ms @ 13.2V. and a linearized correction of approximately 0.115ms/volt.

What brand/type ECU are you setting up? Is it a fully configurable ecu? Does it support switching between 1,2,4 squirts per cycle? There is a trick to experimentally approximately obtain the values.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
One of the injectors in need ID'd is a Nikki EAT324

The ecu in question is an EMtron KV8, I can run the test myself this weekend, but was hopeful that maybe someone with knowledge either from racing or programming ECUtech might have the values already defined.
 

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You could contact Doug Lofgren. He is in Minnesota and does that for a living. He is on the forum as @moperfserv
 

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One of the injectors in need ID'd is a Nikki EAT324

The ecu in question is an EMtron KV8, I can run the test myself this weekend, but was hopeful that maybe someone with knowledge either from racing or programming ECUtech might have the values already defined.
Whoa cool EMtron KV8 :surprise::surprise::surprise::yo: That i$ $omething.
Is the ECU also going to control the variable length intake tracts? They are vacuum operated OEM right?

Anyway i have no spec sheets of those injectors in my trash folder. It was worth a try but it is not likely that you will find these values on any forum. These injectors are so rare that practically no one knows them and professionals don't share them to protect their business. Do you have ignition coil dwell and spark duration times? I know the coils work between 1.4 and 1.7ms but i am curious to what the scope or spec sheets show.
 

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?

Hmmmm....
Try using an oscilloscope :wink2:

email your question to RC Engineering in Torrance CA
Since Russ (RC) taught American Honda how to fuel inject their cars......he was across the street from American Honda
Luther Iskanderian was across the intersection from American Honda and ground their prototype cams for them
because they had no clue.....
Before you laugh, Luther and his brother Ed hold all the cam grinding machine patents>:)

When John Surtees designed his F1 motor where do you think he went?????
To see the Camfather naturally ....Ed.....there's a picture of John and Ed meeting in Ed's lobby.....I need to take
a picture of it
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Whoa cool EMtron KV8 :surprise::surprise::surprise::yo: That i$ $omething.
Is the ECU also going to control the variable length intake tracts? They are vacuum operated OEM right?

Anyway i have no spec sheets of those injectors in my trash folder. It was worth a try but it is not likely that you will find these values on any forum. These injectors are so rare that practically no one knows them and professionals don't share them to protect their business. Do you have ignition coil dwell and spark duration times? I know the coils work between 1.4 and 1.7ms but i am curious to what the scope or spec sheets show.
The goal is for the KV8 to control everything from the TSS to the DBW throttles. Options list for this setup are traction control, QS and blipper, torque smoothing, all the bells and whistles. I'll share more after this weekend once i start wiring. It'll be very basic for the time being and then spiral out of control in complexity over the winter.
 

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The goal is for the KV8 to control everything from the TSS to the DBW throttles. Options list for this setup are traction control, QS and blipper, torque smoothing, all the bells and whistles. I'll share more after this weekend once i start wiring. It'll be very basic for the time being and then spiral out of control in complexity over the winter.
Very interesting, How are you going to set it up initially? Pure Alpha-N or with MAP/speed density compensation/hybrid ITB mode? Are you going to keep the OEM dash or are you going to use a led display dashboard, if so which one?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Very interesting, How are you going to set it up initially? Pure Alpha-N or with MAP/speed density compensation/hybrid ITB mode? Are you going to keep the OEM dash or are you going to use a led display dashboard, if so which one?
Pure Alpha-N is what I've been comfortable with in the past, but there are compensations for pressure sensing as far as altitude. I should probably start another thread to capture these conversations. There are a few options dashes, OEM can work if the canbus is the same protocol as the microtec, which I think that it is. I also have an older generation digitek dash, but I've got my eye on an I2M or new AIM gps datalogger dash tbd.
 

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Pure Alpha-N is what I've been comfortable with in the past, but there are compensations for pressure sensing as far as altitude. I should probably start another thread to capture these conversations. There are a few options dashes, OEM can work if the canbus is the same protocol as the microtec, which I think that it is. I also have an older generation digitek dash, but I've got my eye on an I2M or new AIM gps datalogger dash tbd.
Yeah please make and "Emtron ECU" thread. This stuff is very very interesting. I have been fiddling around with a stand alone ecu (megasquirt) from now and then, definitely not equivalent (lightyears behind) in quality, capability, support and value as Emtron and AIM but the basic fueling strategy is comparable in a sense. I did not mean BARO correction by the way. I started with Alpha-N but currently have it set it up in a way that when the throttle body vacuum/pressure is above 90kPa (roughly anything above 30% throttle to wide open throttle) it calculates fueling from the Alpha-N table and everything below 90kPa (low and part throttle and decel) it uses the speed density table which should give really smooth throttle control and response and AFR control on on/off throttle, low and part throttle (in corners) but i haven't gotten everything smoothend yet. I am also curious to your (target) AFR's. I'll spam the new thread when you open it 😄
 
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