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Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner Replacement - MY16 TVL

7K views 25 replies 6 participants last post by  TVLKAWASUKI 
#1 · (Edited)
I've been getting some chatter on the LHS of the engine (timing chain cover) after start up a few times over the last 1000 miles and it usually goes away with some rpm or short distance ride.

Now is seems I get the chatter and it doesn't go away. In addition it seems at lower rpm (2500-4500) when at slow speed in high gear upon acceleration (rolling on the throttle) I get noises I don't like. This especially happens at lower rpm when loading the motor.

My TVL turned over 18,000 miles recently and IMO the cam chain tensioner is failing. I changed the oil on the engine about 800 miles ago and it is still like new (color) after wiping some on a clean paper towel.
5w-40 Castrol 4 s syn power 1

Has anyone done this job and could you give some advice..

  • can you remove the tensioner while in the frame on the TV?
  • how to be certain, once the tensioner is removed, that it is indeed faulty?
  • torque value tightening the replacement?
  • special tool for removal (socket with swiveling extension)?
  • would it be worth removing the lower cover over the timing chain gear/flywheel for analysis (what to look for)?
 
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#2 ·
You should replace it with a manual tensioner. You are going to need to remove your tank and valve cover and set timing at TDC. If you were to take the tensioner off and replace it with a new one without taking the timing covers off...it could jump teeth and you wouldn't know it and it could ruin your engine. I have a write up on doing a valve service and info about the pros and cons of a manual vs hydraulic tensioner.

Search "changing and checking valve clearances."

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#3 ·
thanks for the reply,,

good info about changing out the hydraulic cam tensioner with a manual tensioner. What did you use as a resource to follow for proper chain tensioning with the manual replacement tensioner?

Just trying to understand the point you mentioned about "it could jump teeth" Would this be on the bottom cam chain sprocket, the exhaust cam sprocket or the intake cam sprocket? How would the chain jump teeth on either cam or the bottom cam sprocket if the chain is still in position on those three cam chain sprockets and the cams and chain cam sprocket do not move (or rotate)?

What torque did you use for securing the manual tensioner to the head prior to adjusting the tension?
 
#4 ·
The act of putting the engine in TDC unloads the valve springs. So when you remove the tensioner your cams are not pointing down pressing on the springs. This allows you to safely remove the tensioner without the fear of it springing back and jumping a tooth on either cam. (Especially when you can't see in to verify that it's the correct timing)

I tightened it by feel I can't tell you a specific torque value just make sure it's pretty snug... (Good luck trying to fit anything but a box end wrench in their anyway)


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#5 ·
The act of putting the engine in TDC unloads the valve springs. So when you remove the tensioner your cams are not pointing down pressing on the springs. This allows you to safely remove the tensioner without the fear of it springing back and jumping a tooth on either cam. (Especially when you can't see in to verify that it's the correct timing)
Ok.

I understand that putting cylinder #3 in TDC takes all the cam lobes off all the spring tensioned valves.

Now if you have the cam shaft cover bolted down the cams can not spring up.. correct?


This is what I don't understand.. what is "it"

" This allows you to safely remove the tensioner without the fear of it springing back and jumping a tooth on either cam."

In the service manual it shows that the timing chain can not be removed from either cam shaft sprocket until the cam shaft cover is unbolted/removed and the cam shaft is tilted out of the journal to provide enough timing chain slack (this is with the tensioner removed).

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#6 ·
I sent you a PM.

I'm referring to the cams.

You are correct the cams would not be able to spring up with the girdle installed but they can still move independently and rotate on their own if not at TDC when the tensioner is removed.

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#7 · (Edited)
The following story relates to some work I performed on my personal engine and is not intended to be the definitive description of this procedure.
Please be aware that your results may vary.

Errrrr,

I had an 800RR and replaced the hydraulic CCT with a manually adjustable one.
Did not remove the tank.
Did not remove the Cam cover.

You can ascertain TDC by removing the the alternator cover. This gives access to the cam chain at it's lower sprocket and also allows some checking of the chain slack.


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Rotate crank to align register marks ( arrow and slot).

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Remove seat lock mounting bolts (may apply to TVL or not) and move lock rearward for tool clearance.

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I used a 1-1/16 socket and ground the bevel off to fit the tight space. The shortened socket left scratches on the new part.
It is a short swing and requires some fiddling.

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Hyd. out and Man. in.

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Tighten CCT into head, adjust CCT and thus chain per manual and APE instructions (some slack, not too much.......;)).

I have not seen them but the manuals for the later 3Cyls must have a CCT adjust sched. and procedure as those engines have OEM Mechanical parts.

Good Luck
 
#9 · (Edited)
I have not seen them but the manuals for the later 3 cyl must have a CCT adjust sched. and procedure as those engines have OEM Mechanical parts.

Good Luck
Thanks for the reply.. I spent some time today searching for the most recent 3 cyl shop manual for those new (MY17-21 TVL) motos with the manual CCT to check on procedural process but was not able to locate one.

Also some more testing.. start the TVL up this morning cold and it is quiet as can be. Let it run until the temp kicked the fan on with some slight throttle applications in neutral (3 - 5K rpm). Sounded perfectly normal and wondered why I would even want to change out the CCT.

Turned it off and 5 minutes later, start the engine and it rattling away... seems the hot oil and high operating temps may be a contributor?? Wondering about the ultra light weight 5w-40 in 90+ degree temps.. too thin of oil?

What size socket did you use to remove the OEM manual CCT?

I spoke to the main mechanic at the dealership and he also mentioned that he could replace the CCT without removing the valve cover and that just feel with the cam chain slack by moving the crank with a ratchet would work...

Did you determine what was wrong with the hydraulic CCT that you removed?
 
#8 ·
You have allot more room in the frame for tools! Jelous!

Russian roulette. You don't know what TDC your on. Maybe you are opposite of TDC and your marks are lining up. Hard to tell if you can't see what valves are open. The marks line up twice but which one is TDC#3?? He has enough milage to inspect the valves again anyway.

I'm not the final authority by any means but that seems risky to me. Glad it worked out for you. I would not risk it.

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#13 ·
What he's saying is TDC compression vs. TDC exhaust stroke. Of course the piston will be at the top of the cylinder with the crank lined up, every time, but It needs to be on the compression stroke to have the valves closed at the top (cams lined up).
The cranks rotates 2 times for every one cam rotation. 4-stroke.
 
#15 ·
Yes, of course it is. Because it's important.

The discussion of 'putting a straw in the cylinder' will tell you the piston is at TDC. But it can't tell you compression or exhaust stroke... hence my clarification, to what the manual says. Because it's important.
 
#18 ·
Right, but I don't find the engine manual for the Turismo Veloce provided there unless I have missed it...

That is what prompted my question. I assumed that TV owners where using another motos engine manual or??
 
#19 ·
The TV manual does not have the engine portion in it. You need to download ANY of the other 800 English technical manuals. I use the Brutale manual. The engines are, for all your intended purposes, identical.

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#23 · (Edited)
I used the instructions from the APE tensioner page on their website, remembering of course that the crank rotates clockwise from viewed from the left side,

" INSTRUCTIONS

To set the tensioner adjustment, rotate the engine forward while screwing the tensioner bolt in. When you feel the engine tensioner parts (guide, rollers, etc.) make contact with the moving cam chain, back the tensioner bolt out 1/4 turn and tighten the jam nut. (For the finer pitch thread on the APE Pro Series tensioner it is advised to back the tensioner up 1/2 of a turn.)

DO NOT over-tighten the cam chain, as cam chain giude damage could occur. Be sure jam nut is tight against the tensioner body when complete. "

 
#24 ·
I used the instructions from the APE tensioner page on their website, remembering of course that the crank rotates clockwise from viewed from the left side,

" INSTRUCTIONS

To set the tensioner adjustment, rotate the engine forward while screwing the tensioner bolt in. When you feel the engine tensioner parts (guide, rollers, etc.) make contact with the moving cam chain, back the tensioner bolt out 1/4 turn and tighten the jam nut. (For the finer pitch thread on the APE Pro Series tensioner it is advised to back the tensioner up 1/2 of a turn.)

DO NOT over-tighten the cam chain, as cam chain giude damage could occur. Be sure jam nut is tight against the tensioner body when complete. "

And there in lies the risk if the tank, airbox etc have not been removed so I can watch the chain as I rotate. It is when there is no tension on the chain, the cams are under alot of resistance trying to push the valve springs down that the chain " could " jump a tooth. And I would never know. So I'm going the longway round on this project and stripping down to removing the valve cover and watch the tension come on as I tighten the allen bolt.
And, as I'm still having off throttle , coming to a stop stalling, I'm going to re-balance the T/B while I'm in there.
Even if I could get the torque wrench onto the bolt properly without the convoluted adapter and swivel on the wrench and get a proper setting I'd risk it - make a mistake here and it would be expensive.
 
#25 ·
As with ANYTHING READ ON THE INTERNET you are responsible for whatever you do with the information. Good luck with the work.

That being said:

If you are replacing the HYD unit with the APE then follow the APE instructions.
OR: Follow MV Engine Service Manual as outlined in above posts.

I have replaced my HYD tensioner with the APE piece. And consulted the Manual and the APE instructions.



BEWARE OF ADVICE FROM POSTERS WHO HAVE NOT DONE THIS WITH THESE PARTS.



Obviously your choice to open the valve cover is another way to go to have peace of mind if you are unsure of the above.
 
#26 ·
At the end of the day, the install does work just following the APE instructions. With the timing marks lined up, so long as nothing moves once the oem tensioner is removed, its pretty simple. Looking down the cam chain tunnel with the valve cover off , the black piece ? that rubs on the chain doesn't move away from the chain , with the oem tensioner removed, to worry about any real slack in the chain to be of concern. So install the new tensioner as instructed. Trying to use the torque wrench to 12nm on this install didn't work for me - with the tools I have are too cumbersome and angles are all wrong to get it to work properly.
 
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