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MV Cellist
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In anticipation of taking delivery of my new baby, I am opening a can of worms, and thanks in advance for all your feed back!



Breaking-in...

1. do you follow the OEM instruction or http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm and http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/NewBike.html#BreakIn?

2. Motoman suggests no synthetic oil for his method, do you agree with that?

3. In the 2 alternative ways of hard breaking-in, they both suggest that natural hard engine deceleration is very important, I was wondering if F4 1000's EBS should be disabled to reek the full benefit of decel during break-in?

4. what about the breaking in of other parts of the bike? any specific methods or just ride it gently for the first 600 miles?




Mods...

ok, I am not thinking about expensive mods of adding HP, CF wheels and body work... all I want to do is to make the bike a more user friendly tool, for now.

1. I have read so much about the throttle abruptness, what are the things to do in order to totally smooth out the on/off response besides a custom mapped PC? and does the throttle return spring mod make the issue better of worse?

2. I sat on the Senna in the showroom the other day and noticed although the kick stand doesn't retract like my ex 98 Ducati 916, it also doesn't spring to and stays in the fully open position like my R6... based on what I have read in the forum, I got the impression that the older F4 750s had kick stands which retracted like my 916 and the newer bikes are different... is the kick stand mod in the MVfqa blog for older models only? can my Senna's stand made to spring fully open with this mod?

3. rearsets... I have reverse shifting on all my bikes and I am planning to set up to the Senna the same way, I am looking to get a strong aftermarket adjustable rearset with a simple/elegant design, with reverse shifting linkage and non-folding pegs, I have seen many designs already, can you tell me which ones you prefer and any feed back on their quality/strength would be great too.

4. Does anyone have info on good street suspension baseline setup for the Senna's Sachs racing rear, 50mm Marzocchi RAC forks? I weight about 175 with all my riding gear.
also, what about the Ohlins damper setting?

5. with all the heat issues/complains I have read on the forum, I am thinking about replacing the OEM antifreeze with distilled water & water wetter, is that okay to do? will it cause radiator rust or other problems? which do you prefer, engine ice or water wetter?

Thanks for allowing me to pick your brain!! :yo: :yo:
 

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My thoughts exactly Starfighter! :)
 

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Picked up my Senna last Saturday. Flew into Glendale, signed paperwork and hopped right on heading to Laguna Seca. Day and a half later rode it back home. Put over 1,000 miles in just two days. Rode great, Extremely fast, and very smooth. Nothing to worry about. Doesn't need any major mods exept an exhaust (IMO). It was built to ride so have fun and just worry about other drivers.
 

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Just ride it and see how you get on with it, with the throttle issue it may be cured by the new ecu, I have asked the 1000r v s question but I have not yet received the answer I was looking for, there is no Power commander available as yet, some one said dealers could re-load the std ecu to suit RG3's?, A power commander on pre new ecu bikes was always a better bet than MV's eproms........

Leave the std oil in that MV put there, I'm sure if it wanted a non synthetic (which it may be from the factory anyway?) MV would have done it

I M H O I have never noticed the throttle too heavy, so not bothered with the spring mod.

Most dealers say the 600 mile running in prior service should be treated as a minimum.

It was only very early F4's that had the auto sidestand thing, It was a total pain in the arse! every time you moved the bike around it would retract.

It's a tad early in the models life to be asking for suspension settings I feel, see how you get on with it and which direction you feel it needs to go, also if you can find a good suspension expert, he will be able to tell more by just bouncing the thing up and down than probably 95% of us can here!
I once took someone's track settings and applied them to my 1000, It was so dangerous it was unreal, the front just chattered (gripped and slipped) all the way around the first corner that I pushed it :stopp:

The Temp issue has never bothered either mine or my mates 1000 except for if you get stuck in traffic, it's then not unusual to see the temp indicator read around the 102c mark, but the moment you start moving it will drop, removing the cat takes a lot of heat away from the rear of the bike and your right boot.

Finally enjoy it and ride it, I know that new bike moment, its a thing to be remembered, I'm quite jealous!!!!! :naughty:
 

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As far as the reverse shifting, maybe just get the drum swapped around when you get it serviced instead of using those ugly linkages.

I've got some good setting for the rear shock on my std sachs if you have any issue with yours...any issue at all that is you might be able to twist my arm for a trade :D
 

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As far as coolant goes:

http://www.evanscooling.com/

I know now many people with this set-up here in hot ass Florida, and it's working VERY well.

As far as breaking it in...
Here we go....

What are you doin when breaking in a motor? You're seating rings. Nothing else needs "break-in". Everything is lubricated and assembled properly. There are no other variables, except rings. Breaking in a motor gently does nothing but hurt your performance by allowing your cylinder walls to "file" your rings when not under load, thus, allowing blow-by. Breaking in a motor is about heat cycles and ring seating. Warming up the motor to op temp and running it hard is BOTH. People who break it in hard and get shit results aren't loading the rings with both accel and decel, AND probably aren't heat cycling the motor.

Nothing else needs breaking in. If something breaks during the hard break-in, it was bound to break down the road when you DO get on it, if not before then. "Don't ride your bicycle hard after it's built until all the parts are seated..." Same thing...stop and think about it, same simple logic.

The break-in recommended from manufacturers is for legal and warranty situations to protect them from an improperly assembled motor. If something does break during the "manufacturer recommended break-in", they take the hit. If it was broken-in the way it's supposed to, for maximum performance and reliability, and it breaks, they have an out to not pay for it, as you didn't follow thier recommendations. Also, from a safety standpoint, especially since most hard driving is associated with high speed, it keeps any malfunctions from incorrect assembley from possibly happening at a high speed and severely injuring/killing somebody. Holds exponentially true on a motorcycle.

Any serious enthusiast will tell you the best way to break-in your motor is under a dyno, where you can safely vary your RPMS with hard acceleration and engine braking...putting those rings under CONSTANT load for those 1st 20 critical miles. As well as being able to cycle new oil 2-3 times to "flush" the motor. But, if you don't have access or funds to break it in that way, do a ton of 1st gear accelerating and decelerating as it's usually within the speedlimit and is constant load on the rings and isn't isn't a consistent RPM as you would normally be doing if driving off the lot to get to a "safe place to run it hard".

"Breaking it in hard is for the most performance, but not realiability." Is also a horseshit cop out, because you're think "race teams do it that way because they have unlimited fundage". No, race teams do it that way to minimize chance of something breaking during a race AND for best gains. Even they have **** ups during assembley. Again, if it broke during break-in, it was gonna break later. You get longevity from the lack of sulfer and carbon deposits from blow by and oil burning...so it's not for just "the most performance". You don't get the harmful deposits on everything.

Most race teams do tear downs and rebuilds because most of thier engines are either getting new parts, or using other ones that worked better...not because of reliability or HP. Remember, those motors are under constant R&D. They are constantly switching new parts and things they found that worked better or didn't work.

I'll be damned if I'm buying a performance motor/vehicle and not squeezing every bit of performance I can out of it. But maybe not everybody thinks that way???

All this info is gathered from SEVERAL sources both personal relationships and forum friends. Such as Factory mechanics, AMA racers, professional engine builders/tuners, and people from various racing backgrounds and shop owners/racers from motorcycling, auto crossing, and even Nascar....all with the same data and results. Hard break-in = best performance and longevity.

Do it right....drive it during break in HARD, change the oil, and do it again. I dunno why everybody is so brainwashed into thinking you need to take it easy on a new motor. Take it easy for what?

Yeah, your motor will run, and it'll run fine if you break it in easy. It just won't run to it's potential/efficienncy it could have had you broke it in hard/correctly. If you broke it in easy, and have a "Monday" motor, imagine what it could have been if you broke it in the right way. Where the rings seat, and not filed away...
 

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mikef4uk said:
Just ride it and see how you get on with it, with the throttle issue it may be cured by the new ecu, I have asked the 1000r v s question but I have not yet received the answer I was looking for, there is no Power commander available as yet, some one said dealers could re-load the std ecu to suit RG3's?, A power commander on pre new ecu bikes was always a better bet than MV's eproms........
Probably a good tuner can modify mapping memory like they do at the factory for rg3's or other pipes. Also could be done with UltiMap Software for the 750's (needed a special eprom)
 

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I would stay away from water wetter, seems to gunk up over time. In addition to Nates recommendation I'd use http://www.engineice.cc/

Used it on my previous bike and I plan to use it on my MV. I know JamesC is currently using it on his and I don't think he has any issues. From my experience with Engine ICE the bike ran a little cooler but not much....However the bike temps dropped quickly when the bike was in motion than with regular coolant.
 

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MV Cellist
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Discussion Starter #12
I agree with you guys about the break-in method, I have read a lot about this topic here since 7 month ago and have pretty much decided not to break in gently, I am also wondering if I should spend the money to have it done on a dyno. How about the oil issue? I think I will just leave the factory oil in and use only factory recommanded oil during the break-in period, I raised the question because Motoman seems to be convinced non-sythetic is the way to go? how often do you change your oil? I remember Reptile changed it after just 100 miles...

Break-in of other parts of the bike... I was mainly thinking about brakes, when I had my Braking Wave rotors and new pads installed on my R6 they recommanded a specific procedure for the initial break-in to help the proper mating of the pads/rotors?

throttle return spring... I have only test ridden the F4 but did not notice it being too heavy, I imagine the throttle is like the trigger of a gun, in general the more powerful the gun the heavier the trigger, for many good reasons. therefore I am not convinced that I will need a lighter tension mod, the only reason I mentioned is because I wonder if the mod would help the throttle abruptness, or make it worse... again, I think it is like a trigger, a heavy trigger with a crisp clean break is way better than a light and creepy one, so the mapping is more important.

Thanks guys for the feedback!
 

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odonata said:
I agree with you guys about the break-in method, I have read a lot about this topic here since 7 month ago and have pretty much decided not to break in gently, I am also wondering if I should spend the money to have it done on a dyno. How about the oil issue? I think I will just leave the factory oil in and use only factory recommanded oil during the break-in period, I raised the question because Motoman seems to be convinced non-sythetic is the way to go? how often do you change your oil? I remember Reptile changed it after just 100 miles...

Break-in of other parts of the bike... I was mainly thinking about brakes, when I had my Braking Wave rotors and new pads installed on my R6 they recommanded a specific procedure for the initial break-in to help the proper mating of the pads/rotors?

throttle return spring... I have only test ridden the F4 but did not notice it being too heavy, I imagine the throttle is like the trigger of a gun, in general the more powerful the gun the heavier the trigger, for many good reasons. therefore I am not convinced that I will need a lighter tension mod, the only reason I mentioned is because I wonder if the mod would help the throttle abruptness, or make it worse... again, I think it is like a trigger, a heavy trigger with a crisp clean break is way better than a light and creepy one, so the mapping is more important.

Thanks guys for the feedback!
If you don't have the empty roads around you, break it in on the dyno...should be like $40-60 depending on how much they charge for dyno pulls.

Leave the oil they have in there. All of the motors I've broken in, I've used sythetic. Especially if that's the oil you plan on using in your bike. I changed my oil after my 1st couple runs. Motoman says within the first 20 miles....I changed my oil in under 10...I did a couple hard pulls down the street, did the same on the way back, and changed my oil. I checked my oil plug after that intial oil change, and the amount of metal shaving on the plug was nearly NONE on the 2nd change, so I did my job of breaking her in good. Luckily, I have a barren empty straight road by my house, so I'm good to go without a dyno...

Off hand I can't remember who did, but they broke thier Brutale hard in on the Dyno, and changed it after like 2 hard pulls...did a couple more, then changed it again. Then was good to go till 600 miles. Sounds like alot of useless oil changes, but think of it this way...what 6 quarts of oil for a PERFECTLY RUNNING AND PERFORMING BIKE??

The throttle mod, I did, and it DID feel better. Not so much in a heavy throttle, but more so in small movements. Think throttle modulation....I never really had a complaint personally about holding the throttle during long periods, etc....I did it mainly for the modulation. It makes SMALL adjustments with the throttle alot easier. Now, if only they'de make a 1/4 turn/quick turn throttle.

I break in everything hard...brakes are no different. After you break the motor in on the dyno, do a couple hard braking sessions....don't brake slowly or moderately, brake HARD AND QUICKLY. You're more or less making the rotor meet the surface of the pad....that's why they get all shiny (aside from the heat generated) is they're now flush with the pad.
 

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Not to go against the stream here, but the practicality of hard breaking in on public streets is not exactly feasible for the entire duration of 1,200 miles, mile per mile.

For the streets, my half/half solution (for what ever it's worth) is to fluctuate the rpm constantly while staying under 6000 rpm up to 600 miles with occasional burst of rpm to 10,000 for a split seconds when safe. Then after 600 miles, for every additional 100 miles, I add 1,000 rpm to the limit. I.E. up to 7,000 rpm up to 700 miles; 8,000 rpm up to 800 miles, etc, etc.
That way you gradually work your way up to the limit. You'll find with the power under your legs, you'll struggle to get up to the kind of rpm for breaking in, unless you are breaking it in on the track and/or on a dyno for the entire milage. I believe your bike is capable of doing 100 mph in first gear, thus the more reason to play it safe on public roads.
It's pretty hard to damage these bikes, just don't labor the engine at low rpm...and don't try to kill yourself for a "proper" break in! :blah: :blah:

On the rear sets thing, there were some Veltro looking rear sets in black that James posted once...I think they'll look cool on your Senna. :drummer:
 

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On a dyno, the hard break-in will be in under 5 miles....and if it breaks on the dyno...it was gonna break on you later on..atleast you caught it when you WEREN'T on the bike...
 

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kamranmarashi said:
Not to go against the stream here, but the practicality of hard breaking in on public streets is not exactly feasible for the entire duration of 1,200 miles, mile per mile.

For the streets, my half/half solution (for what ever it's worth) is to fluctuate the rpm constantly while staying under 6000 rpm up to 600 miles with occasional burst of rpm to 10,000 for a split seconds when safe. Then after 600 miles, for every additional 100 miles, I add 1,000 rpm to the limit. I.E. up to 7,000 rpm up to 700 miles; 8,000 rpm up to 800 miles, etc, etc.
That way you gradually work your way up to the limit. You'll find with the power under your legs, you'll struggle to get up to the kind of rpm for breaking in, unless you are breaking it in on the track and/or on a dyno for the entire milage. I believe your bike is capable of doing 100 mph in first gear, thus the more reason to play it safe on public roads.
It's pretty hard to damage these bikes, just don't labor the engine at low rpm...and don't try to kill yourself for a "proper" break in! :blah: :blah:

On the rear sets thing, there were some Veltro looking rear sets in black that James posted once...I think they'll look cool on your Senna. :drummer:
I liked this idea.

For the record my bike which (i purchased with 3900kms on the clock) was run in hard...or hardish by the original owner. After the first 200 kms he rode it normally but (mostly due to saftey and where he rode) rarely took it above 8000rpm's.

I have not had it on the dyno but am curious as to what it might be putting out and just the other week a new superbike dyno shop opened up just a couple of mins down the road by some very experienced racers/mechanics which I think I will check out and see what happens.
 

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oicdn said:
As far as coolant goes:

http://www.evanscooling.com/

I know now many people with this set-up here in hot ass Florida, and it's working VERY well.

As far as breaking it in...
Here we go....

What are you doin when breaking in a motor? You're seating rings. Nothing else needs "break-in". Everything is lubricated and assembled properly. There are no other variables, except rings. Breaking in a motor gently does nothing but hurt your performance by allowing your cylinder walls to "file" your rings when not under load, thus, allowing blow-by. Breaking in a motor is about heat cycles and ring seating. Warming up the motor to op temp and running it hard is BOTH. People who break it in hard and get shit results aren't loading the rings with both accel and decel, AND probably aren't heat cycling the motor.

Nothing else needs breaking in. If something breaks during the hard break-in, it was bound to break down the road when you DO get on it, if not before then. "Don't ride your bicycle hard after it's built until all the parts are seated..." Same thing...stop and think about it, same simple logic.

The break-in recommended from manufacturers is for legal and warranty situations to protect them from an improperly assembled motor. If something does break during the "manufacturer recommended break-in", they take the hit. If it was broken-in the way it's supposed to, for maximum performance and reliability, and it breaks, they have an out to not pay for it, as you didn't follow thier recommendations. Also, from a safety standpoint, especially since most hard driving is associated with high speed, it keeps any malfunctions from incorrect assembley from possibly happening at a high speed and severely injuring/killing somebody. Holds exponentially true on a motorcycle.

Any serious enthusiast will tell you the best way to break-in your motor is under a dyno, where you can safely vary your RPMS with hard acceleration and engine braking...putting those rings under CONSTANT load for those 1st 20 critical miles. As well as being able to cycle new oil 2-3 times to "flush" the motor. But, if you don't have access or funds to break it in that way, do a ton of 1st gear accelerating and decelerating as it's usually within the speedlimit and is constant load on the rings and isn't isn't a consistent RPM as you would normally be doing if driving off the lot to get to a "safe place to run it hard".

"Breaking it in hard is for the most performance, but not realiability." Is also a horseshit cop out, because you're think "race teams do it that way because they have unlimited fundage". No, race teams do it that way to minimize chance of something breaking during a race AND for best gains. Even they have **** ups during assembley. Again, if it broke during break-in, it was gonna break later. You get longevity from the lack of sulfer and carbon deposits from blow by and oil burning...so it's not for just "the most performance". You don't get the harmful deposits on everything.

Most race teams do tear downs and rebuilds because most of thier engines are either getting new parts, or using other ones that worked better...not because of reliability or HP. Remember, those motors are under constant R&D. They are constantly switching new parts and things they found that worked better or didn't work.

I'll be damned if I'm buying a performance motor/vehicle and not squeezing every bit of performance I can out of it. But maybe not everybody thinks that way???

All this info is gathered from SEVERAL sources both personal relationships and forum friends. Such as Factory mechanics, AMA racers, professional engine builders/tuners, and people from various racing backgrounds and shop owners/racers from motorcycling, auto crossing, and even Nascar....all with the same data and results. Hard break-in = best performance and longevity.

Do it right....drive it during break in HARD, change the oil, and do it again. I dunno why everybody is so brainwashed into thinking you need to take it easy on a new motor. Take it easy for what?

Yeah, your motor will run, and it'll run fine if you break it in easy. It just won't run to it's potential/efficienncy it could have had you broke it in hard/correctly. If you broke it in easy, and have a "Monday" motor, imagine what it could have been if you broke it in the right way. Where the rings seat, and not filed away...

Very nice break in write up +1 for hard break in. Got 80 miles by the book now its time to get some oil and filters and do the hard break in. I am not gonna wait till 1600 miles to hit the red line and enjoy my bike. :yo:

Free bump for new MV owners seems like their are quite many these days:ahhh:
 
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