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Discussion Starter #1
I've just started looking at used F4s. I've always loved the design and recently I discovered that they aren't that expensive, atleast if you import one from Germany (I live in Sweden). Now what I want to know is how it compares to a japanese 600cc sportbike, preferably a Yamaha R6, since I have owned one of those. I'm not so much interested in performance numbers, I already know that the MV has a slight edge there. What I'm interested in is how the bike behave in corners, and more specifically how much effort it takes to lean it over and how much feedback the bike gives to the rider.

What makes me worried is the weight of the bike. According to several sources it weighs 218-219kg (~480lbs) with all fluids and a full tank, whereas an R6 weighs no more than 193kg (425lbs). That's a really big difference, but how does it feel when you ride it? Do you notice all that extra weight?

Thanks,
Fred00
 

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I'm sure you won't find any Mv owners complaining about their move from Jap to Italian bikes

I don't know if this helps, but "the original F4 felt no quicker than a fit 600, but this senna's evo2 Engine is Proper quick" Fast Bikes mag

but also

"It feels so good that living without an MV is plain idiotic" Fb

So far in all the 750 Mv tests I read the only thing people complained about was availability (which has risen due to the used bikes) and price (which has also dropped). I think anyone can agree that the Mv is the way to go
 

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Discussion Starter #3
d-_-b Tamburini d-_-b said:
I'm sure you won't find any Mv owners complaining about their move from Jap to Italian bikes

I don't know if this helps, but "the original F4 felt no quicker than a fit 600, but this senna's evo2 Engine is Proper quick" Fast Bikes mag

but also

"It feels so good that living without an MV is plain idiotic" Fb

So far in all the 750 Mv tests I read the only thing people complained about was availability (which has risen due to the used bikes) and price (which has also dropped). I think anyone can agree that the Mv is the way to go
Well, flickability is my main concern, performance is enough for me. I want my bike to feel light, small and agile. I am looking at the 2004-2006 R1 also, but have the same concerns regarding the flickability about that bike. I've also looked at the 2006 GSX-R 750 as a good compromise, but to be honest it doesn't hold a candle to the R1 and MV in terms of design. Those are two of the most beautiful bikes ever made (yes, that Yamaha is stunning to me, don't care where it is made).

By the way, how's the comfort? It may sound strange to bother about comfort on a sportbike but it's going to be on the street 95% of the time so it's extra nice if it is comfortable (within reason).
 

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Faster and handles better. Get one! :stickpoke
 

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i really think flickability is relative. it will out perform any 600 out there, but maybe not a new gsxr750...if you're ALL about perfomance stats. "feel" is also subjective so that can't be answered either. that article where they named the 750senna the KING of the 750's should tell it all.

it'll probably be hard to know what you're asking down the detail without having a test run. if you can test a 1000, it should be close to the handling of a 750....of course 750 being better :king:
 

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Andy (Acruhl) would be a good person to talk to. He has a '01 750 and has/had a 2003 or 2004 ZX6R and has tracked both

http://www.mvagusta.net/gallery/acruhl

I'm not really qualified to answer since I haven't ridden a 600 in years but I'd think the Japanese bike would be more flickable - maybe even twitchy. But, the MV would have better frontend feedback and inspire more confidence.
 

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BST cf wheels and a few choice other lightweight parts could make a very dramatic difference whatever you decide.
 

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Whatever you've read in magazines about the MV being slower than 600s, it's crap. Well, mostly anyway. It's not really a good comparison.

On the street the MV will be the better bike because it definitely feels faster than 600s. Maybe not always the 636 Kawasaki though.

But it's quite a bit heavier, and decidedly NOT flickable compared to a 600.

But then again, ride both back to back, and it's highly likely that (given the MV is set up close to correct) that you'll like the MV and get where it's coming from.

The easiest way to put it is, the faster you go, the better the MV gets. If you're on a tight track or a tight set of turns on the road, the 600 feels better.

You have to spank both to go fast, but much more so on the 600.

I'm extremely happy to be an MV750 owner. I've ridden a whole lot of 600s including one I raced for 3 years. I'd rather race the 600, but I'd rather ride the MV on the street or up to the fastest I'd care to ride in a track day.

I think if you must compare the 750 to other bikes, especially 600s, you're kind of missing the point of the MV. Similar to comparing the old 996 to the 750s of the day. It loses out in every comparison until you actually get on one and ride it, then you get it.

And the MV is much easier to work on, and much more rewarding too. It all is very smartly laid out and "just works". If you're an engineer or you like to work on your own stuff, you'll love the MV. It's really cool in that respect.
 

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Before I bought my F4S 750 (the slowest F4 @ 126 crank hp), I was looking at the GSX-R 750 and a few 600's like the CBR600F4i and ZX-6.

Compared to the 600's:

The MV had much more torque in the midrange, but didn't surge at the top end like the jap bikes do. This is on '03-'05 600's, I can't say about the brand new R6 or ZX-6RR. The power was much more linear on the MV. The MV was faster overall, but a good rider on the 600 could still beat you if you didn't get a good jump.

Compared to the GSX-R 750:

The GSX-R is faster and lighter anyway you put it. MAYBE the SPR could hold its own, but I honestly doubt it. The GSX-R 750 is really fast.

All that said, I still bought the MV over the gixxer.
 

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Let me make this clear. With a loose steering head (noticeable slop), the MV handled and felt more planted than any GSXR, Yammy or Kawi I've ever been on.

The ONLY time it felt sketch, was when I was going 130 on an imperfect road with a loose steering head...THEN it was a LITTLE unnerving, but nothing that made me slow down, lol.

If handling is your main concern...you won't go wrong. ANd oh, as a side note...the jap[anese have VERY optimistic scales.....
 

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ooops pressed the go button....
I was going to say sorry if I am abrupt, but you may be the wrong guy for such a bike. I raced an R6 for two seasons in 600 supersport. It is a samll, flighty, revvy angry little bastard of a thing. I would hate to have one as a road bike.
The MV 750 I had at the time was a beautiful piece of Italian design Engineering that I revelled in every time I got to go for a ride.Simialr feeling to my 748SP.
Bottom line is the R6 was a tool, the F4 my passion, you either want the passion or you don't, I think you are going about your decison too logical. Relax, soak in emotion and go for it.
Magic
 

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Greg that was perfectly said!!!
The passion and pure joy you receive from riding one of these bikes is....unexplainable.
I say unless you are looking for a "TOOL" as greg put it.....Then you should buy the bike that drives your soul not your quest to say you have the best handling bike "on paper that is"
What am i saying these bikes are phenominal in the corners and wicked fast.
i think im gonna go ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
acruhl said:
Whatever you've read in magazines about the MV being slower than 600s, it's crap. Well, mostly anyway. It's not really a good comparison.

On the street the MV will be the better bike because it definitely feels faster than 600s. Maybe not always the 636 Kawasaki though.

But it's quite a bit heavier, and decidedly NOT flickable compared to a 600.

But then again, ride both back to back, and it's highly likely that (given the MV is set up close to correct) that you'll like the MV and get where it's coming from.

The easiest way to put it is, the faster you go, the better the MV gets. If you're on a tight track or a tight set of turns on the road, the 600 feels better.

You have to spank both to go fast, but much more so on the 600.

I'm extremely happy to be an MV750 owner. I've ridden a whole lot of 600s including one I raced for 3 years. I'd rather race the 600, but I'd rather ride the MV on the street or up to the fastest I'd care to ride in a track day.

I think if you must compare the 750 to other bikes, especially 600s, you're kind of missing the point of the MV. Similar to comparing the old 996 to the 750s of the day. It loses out in every comparison until you actually get on one and ride it, then you get it.

And the MV is much easier to work on, and much more rewarding too. It all is very smartly laid out and "just works". If you're an engineer or you like to work on your own stuff, you'll love the MV. It's really cool in that respect.
Thanks! Very imformative. I have to take one for a spin before I decide (duh!). Keep the opinions coming, always nice to hear comparisons.
 

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Fred...I've been on this for years, as I've ridden both on the same day at the track, and had my 750 F4 up against all kinds of 600's with good riders on board....and I can categorically state, NONE OF THE 600's can stay with an F4 750 in a straight line...end of storey....neither can a 748, 748R or 749 for that matter....
The straight line speed of an early F4 is more inline with a 996 from the same era.

Journos always state, "the F4 feels no quicker than a good 600" Well that's how it may feel to them, but when you put them back to back....bye bye 600 !!!

A modern 600 maybe able to lap as quick as an early F4 though....weight being the major limiting factor on track.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Velocemoto said:
Fred...I've been on this for years, as I've ridden both on the same day at the track, and had my 750 F4 up against all kinds of 600's with good riders on board....and I can categorically state, NONE OF THE 600's can stay with an F4 750 in a straight line...end of storey....neither can a 748, 748R or 749 for that matter....
The straight line speed of an early F4 is more inline with a 996 from the same era.

Journos always state, "the F4 feels no quicker than a good 600" Well that's how it may feel to them, but when you put them back to back....bye bye 600 !!!

A modern 600 maybe able to lap as quick as an early F4 though....weight being the major limiting factor on track.
Agreed. The F4 is somewhere between a 600cc and a GSX-R 750. That's nice performance in my book.

2003 F4S
Test in Motorrad spezial 2/2003
Gewicht vollgetankt 219 kg
0 - 80 km/h - s
0 - 100 km/h 3,1 s
0 - 120 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 4,9 s
0 - 160 km/h - s
0 - 180 km/h - s
0 - 200 km/h 9,1 s

F4 Oro
Test in Motorrad 15/1999
Gewicht vollgetankt 207 kg
0 - 80 km/h - s
0 - 100 km/h 3,0 s
0 - 120 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 5,0 s
0 - 160 km/h - s
0 - 180 km/h - s
0 - 200 km/h 9,5 s

2006 GSX-R 600
Test in Motorrad 06/2006
Gewicht vollgetankt 195 kg
0 - 70 km/h - s
0 - 100 km/h 3,4 s
0 - 120 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 5,2 s
0 - 160 km/h - s
0 - 180 km/h - s
0 - 200 km/h 9,9 s

2006 GSX-R 750 (pretty bad numbers for this particular bike, I've seen 2002 models with better performance)
Test in Motorrad 09/2006
Gewicht vollgetankt 200 kg
0 - 70 km/h - s
0 - 100 km/h 3,4 s
0 - 120 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 5,2 s
0 - 150 km/h - s
0 - 160 km/h - s
0 - 180 km/h - s
0 - 200 km/h 9,0 s

Source: www.einszweidrei.de
 

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What's evident from those figures is that for 99% of people and situation, the differences are neglible.

It's perhaps worth mentioning that an F4 feels a lot lighter than it is also because it feels so low and compact. (Despite the high seat height.)

Si
 

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I sold my 2005 CBR600RR to buy my SPR. The difference was immense. For me the MV is substantially more flickable than any current Jap 600s out there.

The big distinction between MV and every other manufacturer is that MV places its emphasis on handling rather than out and out performance. I regularly ride with a GSX-R750 and leave him for dead once it gets twisty. I've ridden his bike and find it just as flickable though the MV holds its line substantially better. Its simply in a different league. I can't speak for standard 750's but the SPR cetainly doesn't feel any heavier on the road either.
 

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Flickability?

My '02 Evo 2 F4 750 is UNHOLY in the twisties! My mostly stock '95 916 is a gift from God, when compared to My '00 Mille [which is oddly more fun], but. . .

Forged aluminum Marchesinis on the F4 make it just amazing in side-to-side transitions at speed. I don't think I've ever been in love with a machine as I am with this one.

Had 2 R1s with various mods. Sold 'em. 5 Ducatis of various sizes and states of tune since '92. Ridden FZRs, TLs, YZFs. I just have to say. . . nothing says lovin' like the F4. On and off the bike, I am in love.

Ain't gonna happen with Jap bikes. Don't hate 'em, just love the 'Gusta!

Merry Christmas. :D
 
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