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Center spacer for the hub is steel on my bike. So the info I have that mv went from aluminum to steel is correct. Took a pic showing it very strongly sticking to a magnet. The other needle bearing spacers are also steel and held to the magnet similarly, not that that was ever in question.
 

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I noticed there is paint (powder coating ) in the hub where the bearing seats on the front wheel. Something as simple as the thickness of that can make the spacer act like its too short. If I had access to machinery that could accurately mill off just the paint I would do that. Its possible the thickness wasn't taken into consideration during the calculations? Or it isn't supposed to be in that area?

This doesn't change the fact that the shop went overboard on torque and damaged my bearing. They went overboard on my other motorcycle(double sided rear) and used single sided torque levels. Then when I went for another rear change they asked me why it was so tight. I smiled and explained to them it was them so don't ask me why.

airjawed;
Either your spacer is too short or the hub is too wide (same effect)

:wink2:
Front wheel spacers can be slightly too long or too short from the factory which puts load on the bearings.
The centre spacer in the rear hub has a different job as it keeps the inner ring for the needle bearings at the correct width.
Here is some reading for you-


http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=222290&d=1428300588
 

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Ok, now I am thoroughly confused.

Questions: Are you discussing front spacers, or hub spacers?

What does that picture show?

Can you use the parts diagram and highlight the parts you are discussing?
 

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Discussion is about the rear hub but we've mentioned the front as it possibly showed that aluminum can compress. The picture above shows the spacer in the rear hub that is between the needle bearing ones. I'll try to get a diagram and highlight later for those interested. I'll start a separate thread to make the information easier in searches.

Its labeled as number 6 in parts diagram for F3 800 2014 part number 8000B7316

It is steel on my bike. MV went from aluminum to steel depending on the model year. I'd get the steel one if you had an aluminum one. It is stronger and not going to galvanize due to dissimilar metals.

The front spacer is aluminum and doesn't need to be worried about as the torque on that is very low.

Ok, now I am thoroughly confused.

Questions: Are you discussing front spacers, or hub spacers?

What does that picture show?

Can you use the parts diagram and highlight the parts you are discussing?
 

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To me, the photo shows an item that won't even fit into the rear hub.
 

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FWIW, the hubs are all the same after 2010. Pre 2010, the hubs were less robust.
 

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?

Here is the diagram showing the part that is steel on my 2014 F3 800
airjawed;
You know why you got a steel spacer in your Criple??????

Because they're CHEAPER than an alloy one!!!

Your frame is MIG welded instead of TIG welded because it's CHEAPER!!!

1st Gen MVs don't have cush drive issues either

:grin2:
 

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Ha!

As long as every other bike is in my rear view mirror I'm fine with that!

I'm sure cost is a factor. I'm not buying a $100K bike any time soon. But it was really nice to have seen 5 carbon fiber framed bikes during my LA trip. HP4Race and Superleggeras at ProItalia and Century BMW!!! But I have to say Miami shops had more MV's and of greater exclusivity.

Anyway, its great to have knowledgeable people on the forum giving input. I think everyone appreciates having this info and I hope I've contributed in some form.



airjawed;
You know why you got a steel spacer in your Criple??????

Because they're CHEAPER than an alloy one!!!

Your frame is MIG welded instead of TIG welded because it's CHEAPER!!!

1st Gen MVs don't have cush drive issues either

:grin2:
 

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OK, I found the right thread.

My sprocket carrier has come into contact with my hub after 46,000klm.
I've pulled the hub apart, all circlips - inner and outer - are in place.
Bearings are full of grease and the wheel spins freely with no noise.
No sign of water ingress.
Score marks on both sides of the L-profile spacer between the sprocket carrier and hub.
Mating faces between needle bearings, middle spacer and outer L-profile spacer are all intact.

My first question is - How thick is the mating face on the L-profile spacer when new ?
Is this wearing down to allow the carrier to contact the hub ?
 

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@one67 .... this is an ancient discussion. Your cush drive rubbers are the root cause of your problem. There are other threads you may want to read.
Here is the synopsis:

The only way I could get the carrier to contact the hub face was indeed to remove the Top Hat spacer.
Not suggesting that you have done that with yours .
I think John you have identified the problem very well and I just looked at the assembly here again and I have a theory as to how it occurs.
First lets start with a perfect hub axle sprocket carrier and all componentry unworn.
Now lets introduce wear in the cush drive rubbers.
This wear in the cush drive allows rotational back and forth lash in the sprocket carrier recess relative to the top hat spacer's outer
face. This grinding action could theoretically deepen the recess in the sprocket carrier.

The stack itself remains locked and with no parts moving relative to other parts in the torqued down stack.

So yeah cush drive rubber wear as the primary factor. Resulting repeated rotational lash causing wear between the outer face of the top hat spacer and the recess in the sprocket carrier.
Might be an idea to grease the top hat spacer face ? to reduce friction and subsequent wear.
And be fastidious in servicing the cush drive rubbers..
 

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Alright, you're saying that the bit of lash in the cush drive alone has worn down the top hat spacer enough to allow the carrier to contact the hub.
By "servicing the cush drive rubbers" you mean replacing them.

The above explanation does not take into account the inside of the top hat spacer contacting the hub, as if the stack has been shortened.
You can see where the spacer has been in contact with the hub.
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Rim Engineering Automotive wheel system
 

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Then it’s time to pull it apart, inspect and measure.
 

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Old Wing Nut
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And buy the "Old Style" carrier (which MV has reverted to as a remedy for this problem) or the aftermarket version,
 

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It's already apart and cleaned, Everything inside is unmarked.
The mating faces of the bearing inner races, centre spacer, and top hat are unmarked.
I know it seems impossible, but either the bearing - spacer stack has shortened, or the hub has "stretched".
Which has allowed the top hat to be jammed between the hub and carrier, when the top hat should be riding on the inner race of the left bearing., holding it away from the hub.
 

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So the sides of the center spacer, nor the top hat (inner side) have any grooves? From my experience, the inner racers over time "dig" into the top hat and the center spacer.
 

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The only other thing I can think of is the outer wheel side bearing that bears the side to side load. Does it need to be replaced - does it allow side to side movement?
 

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@one67 - was your sprocket side nut torqued to spec, or did it seem loose when removed?
 

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This occured on my 2015 800rr at 32000km - it had been serviced by the book by the local MV agent here in Sydney and i was told that the top hat spacer had worn (my cush drive rubbers were still all ok) and that they would start checking this at earlier km's on other customer bikes. They also changed out the one spacer tube (one on sprocket side) since the side of this spacer tube had also worn.

I fully stripped my whole rear assy at 52k and found that there was very little gap between the carrier and the axle assy. Since there was already some severe scoring from the previous 32k incident i decided to replace the sprocket carrier .

Upon investigation the design of the sprocket carrier has changed (note i am not referring to the 2018 model year change where the cush rubbers are round with the bolt inside as per Ducati design) but that the 2015-2017 parts on the partts fische had changed design (the same cush rubber split unit design as above pics, the metal carrier part now has less of an indent at the point where the top hat spacer pushes against it.)

The top hat spacer has also been superceded with a new part number - the material type has changed away from aliminium or some alloy to steel.

So as to root cause - original design and materials used in top hat spacer and spacer tube inside axle promotes wear, leading to play and more wear.
 

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Are the internal spacer and inside loaded edge of the top hat machined with a concave to match the convex edge of the inner race of the bearings ?
It looks like it to me.
As I previously said, the bearings were found well greased with no excessive wear on the inner race.
All seals and the roller bearing on the wheel side were fine.
Excess sprocket play will only wear the outside 5mm of the top hat, leaving the important wheel nut load on the inner 5mm.
On mine, the top hat had been forced into the hub and bound between the wheel nut load and hub, which allowed the sprocket carrier to come across with it.
The sprocket side nut was tight enough to need a socket, but not to torque spec because of the wear between the top hat and sprocket carrier.
 
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