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Discussion Starter #1
I was thinking of sending mine off since it was out, but if anyone has done this already, some feedback would be nice.:stickpoke

Or

has any of you guys had your rod lightened or polished.:wtf:

I have an engine in peices :cry:and i am trying to take advantage of the situation.

Thanks a mille folks

Tree:)
 

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My best guess would be that yamacatiman may have done.
Perhaps send him a PM?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ya know,
I got with yamacatiman before and I am not gonna lie, that dude did the full blown, no holds barred modification to his engine.
No kidding, the list is ridiculous :-O
but, he went big bore. I am not looking for big bore, i am not looking for big numbers. I just want more out of the stock engine (characterwise) and since I am conducting "open heart surgery" here, i wanted to know if anyone else has tried anything (physically to the motor) and what thier feedback was.
Yamacatiman was/is a great source of info, but he went big bore. I would like to keep her at stock CC's and see if i could chase me down a beemer (i know the engine config. wont support that, :) But maybe i could beat'em to 130) :)

thanks in advance in any body has anything

Tree
 

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I wouldn't take any weight off the crank as I don't consider it necessary for performance. When you blip the throttle a stock crank revs as fast as you can twist the grip. The downside is the loss of rotating inertia which helps the engine over TDC at idle and stores a bit of energy for starting off from a stop.

Polishing rods has some benefit in that all the rough edges are smoothed off which helps fatigue cracks from starting. Plus they look wicked cool. Don't forget to rebalance if you do.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I wouldn't take any weight off the crank as I don't consider it necessary for performance. When you blip the throttle a stock crank revs as fast as you can twist the grip. The downside is the loss of rotating inertia which helps the engine over TDC at idle and stores a bit of energy for starting off from a stop.

Polishing rods has some benefit in that all the rough edges are smoothed off which helps fatigue cracks from starting. Plus they look wicked cool. Don't forget to rebalance if you do.
I know. Thanks for the feed back, Lee.
Do you know anyone who has actually done crank/rod work to thier 1000??
I know alot of people said that they had to turn thier idle up to compensate for the lack of inertia, but i am looking to see if any of our guys have tried it for thier 1000.:)
 

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might just want to lighten the flywheel instead..much simpler and you can put it back...

I put an lightweight aluminum flywheel on my Ducati 998...it definitely revved up alot faster...it was nice change, but like other have said, I had to increase the idle speed and it was harder to start.

With that said, if you decide to lighten the crank, then re balancing the crank is required (as lee said)...when I worked at RHS, balancing a crank required the placing weights on the crank that coincided with the weight of the of the piston and rod assembly...Rod, bearing, wrist pin, piston and rings. I am not sure if this applies to inline 4s...but it was certainly required with v-8s. In short, I believe the person balancing the crank will need those items...I would at least inquire about it.

in regards to the Rods....we would grind the beams smooth, shot peen, and glassbead them. The shot peen process relieves stress. It was called a "super stock" rod..legal in many "stock" racing classes.
 

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While you're at it you could have the rods cryogenic treated. And then work 'em over.
 

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Since you have her apart, you should replace your power bands too.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Since you have her apart, you should replace your power bands too.
HAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!
(I'm not that new, bro :laughing:)

Ok.
So fly wheel is better than crank.
But if you had a crank to spare, would you still do the crank??
I like the idea of spoolin' up faster, and i dont mind the higher idle.

what about the rods?? i know the cryo treatment gives strength, but that shouldnt be an issue being that i am not chasing super HP numbers. Is the polishing's sole objective to improve efficiency as the rod is moving through the mist?? That sounds like something i would like to pursue in conjunction with crank lightening (and possibly polishing that too. But only if it effects mechanical operation).

ohh yeah, lewd, why did you have trouble starting if the flywheel was lighter??

thanks for the feedback gents, keep it comin'

Tree
 

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cryo treatment is not really needed...

smoothing out and polishing removes any casting or manufacturing marks or surface imperfections....those small imperfections can be an origination point for a crack to start. any advantage gained through "aerodynamics" of the crank counterweights or rods would be negligible in your application.

the bike was harder to start because it did not have the momentum of the heavier flywheel push it as hard through the compression strokes of the start up phase.

I used a Nichols flywheel.....here is a link for more information..It tells some of the benefits of a lighter flywheel.
http://motorcycle.nicholsmfg.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=28&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=34&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53

home page
http://www.nicholsmfg.com/
 

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in regards to the Rods....we would grind the beams smooth, shot peen, and glassbead them. The shot peen process relieves stress. It was called a "super stock" rod..legal in many "stock" racing classes.
nope, it microscopically compresses the 'skin' of the rod, making the skin denser and stronger
thats what my metallurgist said, he was the one that discovered that the Hydro-Hone process decreased the fatigue life of bolts

the shot in shot peening and the glass beads are round
the Hydro-Hone particles are angular and make stress risers

:f4::brutale:
 

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nope, it microscopically compresses the 'skin' of the rod, making the skin denser and stronger
thats what my metallurgist said, he was the one that discovered that the Hydro-Hone process decreased the fatigue life of bolts

the shot in shot peening and the glass beads are round
the Hydro-Hone particles are angular and make stress risers

:f4::brutale:
as far as the shot peening..
maybe, maybe not....I just worked there..thats what I was told....
For arguments sake...what is the benefit of having the top couple atoms denser and stronger, those are not wear surfaces.

we glass beaded purely for cosmetic reasons.

JUST found this...

this is from falicons site...very interesting, all about racing rods from several manufacturers....the document is 7 pages, BUT see the page labeled 54 section Surface Preparation and Coating. Its a PDF



http://www.faliconcranks.com/Making the Connection.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Lewd, good Sir, you are a God sent.
That was a thourogh read. But now Sir is my testing period :)
So what that read is saying is that to go lighter gets you more responsivness, but going with Ti warrant more (than usual) disassembly to check for streching, aluminum is good if you are not going for big number and steel is great except for weight compared to the other two. Either way, unless you are going for insane numbers, it is not going to make that much of a difference. And all of the treatments are to fortify the rod against stresses.
So, would you wager that actually having the flywheel reduced would make a noticable difference? I already know that you are going to have to turn up the idle some, but the trade off is responsiveness.
Am I right with my train of thought??
And do you think an inline 4 cyl. would have as much trouble turning over with the reduced flywheel?? I mean, it is smaller pistons and not as much pressure acting on them.
Let the learned speak!! :)

Tree
 

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Lewd, good Sir, you are a God sent.
That was a thourogh read. But now Sir is my testing period :)
So what that read is saying is that to go lighter gets you more responsivness, but going with Ti warrant more (than usual) disassembly to check for streching, aluminum is good if you are not going for big number and steel is great except for weight compared to the other two. Either way, unless you are going for insane numbers, it is not going to make that much of a difference. And all of the treatments are to fortify the rod against stresses.
So, would you wager that actually having the flywheel reduced would make a noticable difference? I already know that you are going to have to turn up the idle some, but the trade off is responsiveness.
Am I right with my train of thought??
And do you think an inline 4 cyl. would have as much trouble turning over with the reduced flywheel?? I mean, it is smaller pistons and not as much pressure acting on them.
Let the learned speak!! :)

Tree

I dont know much, but I did stay at a Holiday inn express last night....

I would say lighten the flywheel only...all that other stuff is overkill for a NON racing engine. I don't think it will make enough of a difference to the idle and starting that cannot be managed with a little electronic adjustment.

I did forget to mention however, that on my Duc 998 it did have higher compression pistons installed as well. I did not talk about the mods that much because it was kinda a "sleeper" hehehe...
SO that made it a bit harder to start too.

IN the end, you can probably trust what the manufacturers do...DO you ever read in the magazines that manufacturers sometimes increase or reduce the weight of the flywheel to alter engine characteristics noticeably....they add to tame and make more docile, or lighten to rev faster....in the simplest form, this seems to be a tried and true formula.

I would call someone like Fast by Ferraci and see what he suggests...tell him your goals and he can probably help. Elrado Ferraci is very accessible to answer questions. I called one time for tech support on the tuning software, they put me on hold and he picked up the phone and helped me.
 

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Why can't someone recommend crank lightening in simple, easy to understand words? Like "do it, it's good!". That's what he wants to hear :blah:
 

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I will chime in and hopefully add some insight. I've built engines with aluminum, titanium, steel, and brillium aluminum composite rods and even some exotic crankshaft materials. Each combination having "SPECIFIC" applications. Each has a life expectancy and drawbacks. If you're using this for street and some track then I would leave it alone. The drawbacks are greater than the return by many fold. The crank relies on the case for support. If you lighten the crank then it would rely on the case even more thus exerting more forces through the bearing surfaces to prevent deflection. This would shorten bearing life and eventually lead to fatique cracks and or bearing faliure. The added weight in a crank adds to the dynamic balance and helps balance the stress being exerted. When we build ultra light combos they have a very short life expectancy. Like qualifying only. (Get the hint) The cranks in your engine is perfect for upto 220hp applications and the only lightening would be to accomodate lighter recipicating parts (balancing). If your looking for more "reliable" performance stay upstairs. If you took your engine and
1. tighten the quench area
2. do a little head work
3. increase the cams (A little) or leave them alone
4. adjust cranking compression with cam overlap and static compression
5. check intake track vacuum and possibly increase throttle body size my .5 mm or so
6. then tune it once and leave it alone
I'm assuming you already modified the basics... exhaust and intake box.
you will be tickled pink and the lower end will stay together for the life of your bike. You will be able to apply the additional power and never get stranded somewhere with a lowerend failure.
So as MikeF4Black asked... Don't do it. unless doing a tear down from time to time to monitor part wear and replace the consumeables is ok.
 

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Someone knows what he's talking about... Great post TPO, seriously.


And fill your album. That 99 numbered 312R Scassa lookalike is not yours, is it?
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Thank!! you!!! gentlemen!!!!
That! was the answer I was looking for!!
Mike, you hit it right on the head with what I wanted, and TPO, whew, TPO, you sir have made my xmas list :)
That was an excellent response and I think this is the path that I will take.
I will update 'the team' on progress

Tree
 
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