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I saw there was a gun buy back in NZ. So who has guns in NZ now?
Police, gun collectors, sports shooters, pest controllers, farmers etc, its mainly the assault rifles with large magazines and rapid fire deemed illegal, you know the guns that are designed to kill as many in a shorter time as possible. 60,000 handed in or collected by the police. amnesty has ended and now no more compensation for those that still have them. Criminals do about 2-4 shootings per year, the aim of removing these guns is to stop the nut jobs like the right wing extremist in Christchurch from obtaining these weapons legally and going under the radar. Some of our worst gangs came out in support for the Muslim community, they too hate white right wing extremism. And for the rest of the country we hate ALL forms of extremism, and keeps these guns out of their hands is a step in the right direction. Remember our elected Gov officials voted 119 out of 120 against removing these guns from NZ. The one gutless prick that didn't vote, didn't turn up on the day of the vote, and he is the leader of our extreme right party. Too gutless to vote against it so just didn't turn up. Remember the terrorist who committed NZ worst mass shooting was a nut job from Australia, and where in his country Assault rifles have been banned for 20 plus years, he chose NZ because he could enact his murderous fantasy with the guns of his choice.
 

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Where I live we have had "Gun-amnesties" every 10 -15 years since WW2 -- Guns from the parachute supply drops still surface here every now and then .. They were meant for the resistance, but a large quantity of them ended up in private (Illegal) possesion.
For many years possesion of an illegal firearm did not carry harsh sentences - the judges were allowed a level of discretion, since so many people had old illegal firearms lying about .. If you were already licensed to own guns, you would often get away with a fine (even if rather steep)
and the loss of the priviledge of owning firearms for a period. After some years with shootinbg sprees by rival immigrant and biker gangs, this legislation was tightened and minimum sentences were passed as law .. So far very few "gang-bangers" have been sentenced, but a number of otherwise law-abiding citizens have lost literally everything, because of a mandatory 1 year prison sentence for having an old shotgun too many ..

The NZ law changes was a typical "Knee-jerk" reaction to the atrocity, just like the British ban on centre-fire semi-autos after the Hungerford massacre, end the British ban on Handguns after the Dunblane shootings .. In BOTH these cases it has been proven that they could have been avoided if the Community and the Police had just done their jobs properly .. This kind of rushed and badly researched legislation is the direct consequence of politicians in reality caring more about their votes and standings in the next election, than about making proper and effective legislation. What you will get from the "historic " vote with one "coward not voting" is BAD legislation that will criminalize a large amount of your citizens.. The terrorist the really WANTS to commit another atrocity will just research his/her way to a place to steal explosives or a large truck..

In Norway Breivik murdered even more people with a semi-auto rifle (Ruger Mini-14) but you did not see the Norwegian government vote through unresearched and opinonated "knee-jerk" legislation -- and follow it up with Draconian Legislation against former Law-abiding citizens.

This did not happen in my country either, after the AR/M4 armed islamist attack on a venue where a well known freedom of speech activist and author was about to receive a prize. -- What you DO need to do when terror strikes is to keepå a cool head ..
 

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So are you allowed to own a semi automatic handgun or a pump shotgun?
Yes, i believe up to 10 shots, on rifles and shot guns, but hand guns are illegal unless you have a special permit. (hand guns very rare here). But I'm not an expert, I'm not a gun owner, altho i have a .22 slug gun (lead pellets) Many guns have been modified to fit the criteria. The aim was to remove assault rifles and guns with rapid fire from society so we never have another mass shooting of the scale we had in 2 mosques.
 

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So, here is the interesting thing: if I buy a rifle or shotgun, I am limited to a three round magazine. If I buy a handgun, I am limited to an 8 round magazine.
Your limits are greater than mine.
Weird, huh.....

Fucking US gun laws...causing mass murders since the invention of guns.
 

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As DK said. You can remove every gun from private hands and a nut job will still find a way to kill
Quite true, but certain types of mass murder can be removed. And in some cases these mass murderers have unhealthy afflictions to guns, like the guy we had here. I don't expect Americans to understand our new gun laws, you guys have a very long history of gun ownership and gun rights, we don't, and we also don't have the adulation and fetiches towards guns that many Americans have. To my knowledge we have only had 3 mass murders, all with guns. But only one was of a scale that scared many NZers, because many of us weren't aware these guns were readily available off the shelf. As i said, we looked to Australia to see how well their gun laws worked, and they haven't had another mass shooting on the scale we had, but they certainly have gun nutters that want to commit them, they just had to go overseas to commit them. The answer to solving nut jobs that want to murder will never be answered, but removing the easiest tool to kill on such a large scale, the tool that is designed to kill, and is designed to look like a weapon of war is now illegal here, guns that have a use, a purpose other than mass killing are still llegal, AR15 AK47 etc are not, and not a moment too soon.
 

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Is not the question, why do people need such weapons? And what does that need say about a society?

Measures such as waiting periods, background checks, reviews, compulsory membership of a gun club, and mandatory weapons and ammuntion lock ups in separate locations are not knee jerk reactions. It is a considered response. If one's motivation for buying a gun is law abiding, compliance with such laws is no inconvenience.

If the NRA had anything but their own self-interest and the profits of arms manufacturers as a priority, they would support such measures.
 

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you have had 5 since 1990. Yes much less than in the US

What is a mass shooting?

Different media outlets and research groups use different definitions for the term "mass shooting" For example, crime violence research group Gun Violence Archive defines a "mass shooting" as " FOUR or more shot (injured or killed) in a single event [incident], at the same general time and location, not including the shooter,” differentiating between mass shooting and mass murder and not counting shooters as victims.

So if you have a gang fight and 4 people are shoot. None die. It is classified as a mass shooting. Do you ever hear about it? No, What you hear is people and the news cherry picking the info which scares the people the most. Which gets the most news? 385 mass shootings or the fact that only 29 had more than 4 people die in them?

Now Dave before you get your panties all twisted up. I have never stated I want less gun laws or that I am against outlawing certain types of guns or accessories. I see no reason for the AR 15 or the bump stops that you can place on some guns. They can do away with them. Does not effect me at all.

It is a simple fact that it is the person that killed and not the gun. We had a Christmas parade in my small town two Saturdays ago. Sidewalks are filled with people, I do not own a gun. But if I wanted to commit mass murder I could of got in my truck and did it. Lets say I killed 20 people with the truck. Would there is cries to outlaw any truck over 1/2 ton? No, it would be what went wrong with me to make me do such a horrible thing. Now if I used a gun and only killed 10 people. It would be that guns are bad and we need to get rid of all of them.
 

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It isnt a case of inconvenience. Once you allow government intrusion into anything they continue to intrude. Whether it is guns or healthcare or fossil fuels or immigration. Politicians want their power and control and will do anything to keep it. Be careful when they tell you they know whats best for you because it is usually what will be best for them and I would rather take care of myself
 

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What happens when there is an atrocity is that politicians need to be seen to "Do something" (to get reelected - thus stay in power) -- so they take advantage of the horror and naturally select the easiest "culprit" -- The evil Guns -- And since naturally no one with an interest in firearms as such (the technology, the history, the challenges of mastering a difficult "tool") can be other than a person with an "unhealthy interest" in guns, the law-abiding honest citizen with such an "unhealthy" interest is an easy target. Believe me, I have fought that attitude for too great a part of my life.
It is quite simply much easier to rile "sheeple" up against the "evil" guns than to really do something to address the real causes of gun violence -- There are countries who have had easier access to guns and a larger number of guns then the US, that have never had problems with "mass-shootings" or widespread gun-violence (Switzerland is one example, even though they have since tightened up their laws very considerably)

Where I live guns are extremely restricted, in the sense that you need a permit for ANY type of firearm, and even for higher powered air-weapons. All firearms aquired after the 1980ies are registered, even run of the mill shotguns. But if you can get a permit (have a hunting license or a gun club membership, and have passed the Police vetting) you can buy and own almost any gun you would like, although there are some restrictions on the amount of handguns, and rules for the secure storage of guns that escalate with the numbers you own.

This system works very well -- it allows for a sanity check of the gun owner through the club membership (The club is expected to keep an eye on the member, and can revoke any permits through the police) check by the police for any criminal charges, and keeps track of the firearms, should they get stolen and enter the illegal market. (They are then flagged as stolen, and will automatically trigger a criminal prosecution, should you be found in possesion of the firearm)

This system naturally also allows the "state" to keep track of and confiscate any civilian owned legal firearms -- something that a lot of "real americans" see as a huge problem .. In my country that has happened only once, since these laws were made. When the occupying German forces forced the Danish police to confiscate all civilian rifled centrefire guns. -- Thats 70+ years ago ... Not something we gun owners fear very much .. In the time we have had gun laws restricting civilian gun ownership the laws concerningthe types of firearms we can own has only tightened very little, and only for very specific weapons, or even for specific calibres .. .50BMG was recently deemed "not usable for hunting or sports-shooting purposes" so no new permits are issued :-D
 

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Terrorists are the most likely lot to drive a truck through a group of people. Nut jobs that have an agenda, like hating gays, or anti abortion or a kid bullied at school or a religious nutter that hates other religions or a guy sacked from his job, these are the types that choose guns because their targets are specific. I look at that guy high in a hotel room, he was a gun nut job with an arsenal, shooting kids (targets) at a music concert. 67 dead from memory. Nut job killers like the gun, its their weapon of choice. So lets remove those weapons that cause the most mayhem. And we are doing so just like Australia.
you have had 5 since 1990. Yes much less than in the US

What is a mass shooting?

Different media outlets and research groups use different definitions for the term "mass shooting" For example, crime violence research group Gun Violence Archive defines a "mass shooting" as " FOUR or more shot (injured or killed) in a single event [incident], at the same general time and location, not including the shooter,” differentiating between mass shooting and mass murder and not counting shooters as victims.

So if you have a gang fight and 4 people are shoot. None die. It is classified as a mass shooting. Do you ever hear about it? No, What you hear is people and the news cherry picking the info which scares the people the most. Which gets the most news? 385 mass shootings or the fact that only 29 had more than 4 people die in them?

Now Dave before you get your panties all twisted up. I have never stated I want less gun laws or that I am against outlawing certain types of guns or accessories. I see no reason for the AR 15 or the bump stops that you can place on some guns. They can do away with them. Does not effect me at all.

It is a simple fact that it is the person that killed and not the gun. We had a Christmas parade in my small town two Saturdays ago. Sidewalks are filled with people, I do not own a gun. But if I wanted to commit mass murder I could of got in my truck and did it. Lets say I killed 20 people with the truck. Would there is cries to outlaw any truck over 1/2 ton? No, it would be what went wrong with me to make me do such a horrible thing. Now if I used a gun and only killed 10 people. It would be that guns are bad and we need to get rid of all of them.
 

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?

Let's all get on the same page......
ASSAULT RIFLES,
Most of you have no clue......neither do politicians
Assault rifles are Class 3 weapons and heavily regulated in the US
They fire medium power cartridges
They are selective fire weapons, 2 versions of selector switches
1. Safe, Semiautomatic and Full Automatic
2. Safe, Semiautomatic, 3 Shot Burst and Full Automatic

1st 3 pictures of Assault Rifles
Sturmgewehr StG-44 7.92x33mm 30 round magazine
Automat Kalashnikov AK-47 7.62x39mm 30 round magazine
Colt M-4 Carbine 5.56x45mm 30 round magazine

Civilian Semiautomatic Rifles
Winchester Model 1907 Semiautomatic Rifle 351 Winchester cartridge 10 round magazine rarely 20 round,
2.2 times the power of the. 44 Magnum with the same weight bullet
10 years later, US Troops in WW1 had 5 shot bolt action rifles, the PUBLIC HAD BETTER WEAPONS:grin2:
Remington M-742 various calibers usually 30`06 4 round, 10 round magazines available
Very popular hunting rifle
 

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So tell me why anybody needs a gun like that?
 

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Us "gun Nuts" are already "on the same page" here -- WE all know that an "assault rifle" is a military select-fire weapon of intermediate caliber -- When the general "gun-shy" public see a gun that LOOKS exactly the same, they just assume it MUST be the same thing.
The Stgw 44 was the original "Assault rifle" - the pattern for them all, naturally made by "ze Germans" :grin2: - The most prolific of all "Assault Rifles , The AK-47 was Anton Kalashnikovs adaptation of the same principle - re-engineered for simplicity, reliability and most of all: Cheap massproduction.. Thus you can literally build several supertankers from scrapped steel from AK's -- If you can find them all >:)

The AR family of semiautomatic/select-fire centrefire rifles were developed, tested, remade, redesigned and improved over a very long time - as a Combat weapon!! NOT as a hunting rifle, or recreational target firearm-- So to a more "general Public" That is what they ARE, regardless of the mag capacity, auto or semi-auto .. They are seen exclusively as a Military or Law-enforcement firearm that no civilian can possibly have any reasonable use for.
The simplistic answer to "Jigsaw"'s question is: No Civilian NEEDS to own a semi-auto version of the AR/M-16 "class" of weapons, just like no civilian NEEDS to own a Motorcycle capable of +200MpH .. You should instead ask WHY anyone would want to own this type of gun ... (or Motorcycle -- Why DO you feel the need to own an F4- 312 ???)

The simple fact that military weapons have always been used as hunting and self-defense tools is just ignored. Back in the day a used military firearm was the poor mans only way of owning a reliable gun for hunting or self defense.
Litterally millions of Bolt-action military guns have been used and converted to hunting firearms, but then again if you are "Anti-hunting" that means nothing to you ..

This is in spite of the fact that since the real proliferation of firearms in the mid 1800eds civilian development and research into firearms is what has innovated the industry -- The armed forces have always been extremely reluctant and conservative when it comes to adopting new technology. (This also comes as a consequence of the numbers of firearms that the armed forces need to change, when going to new technology)

Of course, in "a modern civilized society" the individual citizen can not be trusted to defend themselves with any kind of weapon, and "dangerous military firearms" are completely out of the question. -- We should instead rely completely on the good grace of Law enforcement and Passive defenses.. Although in my country it can be an offense to wear body-armor .. wtf... :|

Personally I do not see a problem with an otherwise law-abiding civilian owning any kind of firearm, properly registered and kept in secure storage. You already allow civilians to own and use all kinds of dangerous chemicals, explosives and toxic substances, all in the name of "research", "interest", Historic significance e.t.c. - And regulated by permits for this activity -- Why should guns be any different?
 

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So now I get it, you need a gun like that to protect yourself from other people with guns like that....... Right.
 
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