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Number of mass shootings in the USA has reached 336 for this year 2019. Far as i know there has been 3 mass shootings in the history of NZ, thats 3 that i know of, One a deranged gun man shooting up a small township Aramoana, 13 shot, another is a family member shooting his mother brother father and 2 sisters, then theres the Australian right wing nutter that came here purchased AR15s etc and murdered 51 muslims, i can't think of any others off hand, most shootings are one offs.
 

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Ban guns and it will solve everything. Without guns there can be no more mass murders.

There’s the 1973 mass murder at a gay bar in New Orleans that killed 32: An ejected customer went down the street and bought a can of cigarette-lighter fluid. And the 87 murdered in New York City in 1990: A guy upset with his ex-girlfriend bought $1 worth of gasoline. In 1986 in San Juan, Puerto Rico, union officers put pressure on an employer by using camp-stove gas to murder 97. On July 5 of this year, a guy in Port Angeles, Wash., burned his trailer, killing his wife and three children. Did you see that on CNN?

Nations with strict gun-control laws still have mass murders. One man stabbed to death five people with a kitchen knife at a Calgary party. After the 1996 Port Arthur mass murder, Australia banned most semiautomatic rifles, but they still have mass murders: eight siblings killed in a mass stabbing in Queensland; five bludgeoned to death in Sydney in 2009. Mass murders by arson are also a problem in such countries. Palace Backpackers Hostel in Childers, Queensland, was intentionally burned in 2000, killing 15. The 2011 Quakers Hill Nursing Home fire killed eleven, set by a nurse after police questioned him about drug abuse.

Japan has mass murders. In 1995, a sarin poison-gas attack killed 13 and injured many more. In 2016, a former employee of a nursing home stabbed to death 19 of the patients. Eight students were stabbed to death at an Osaka school in 2001. A combination vehicle/stabbing incident killed seven in Tokyo in 2008. A father burned his wife and five children to death in Tokyo in 2017. Last month, 35 died when a man set fire to an anime studio.

China, another society with very strict gun laws, also has mass murders. A 2014 terrorist knife attack in Kunming left 33 dead and 143 injured. A series of school attacks in the early 2010s killed at least 25 in total; while not all of these school attacks were mass murders (five or more killed in one attack), some meet the criteria: eight schoolchildren murdered with a knife in Nanping in March 2010; nine murdered in Hanzhong with a meat cleaver in May 2010.

Explosive mass murders have also been common: 22 with explosives in Manchester, England, in 2017. Two terrorists killed 33 people at an airport and subway station in Brussels with bombs.
19

There have also been motor-vehicle mass murders in Europe and Australia: 84 murdered with a truck in Nice, France; 12 in Berlin, Germany; five in Stockholm; 13 in Barcelona, Spain; eight by truck and knives in London. While these were terrorist mass murders, others have been mental-health-related, such as an attack in Melbourne, Australia, that killed six.

In the U.S., the core problem underlying most mass murders is people with severe mental illness, who in 1960 would have hospitalized before chalk marks had to be drawn around bodies. If we solve the mental-illness issue, the guns do not matter. And focusing on the guns directs the severely mentally ill to other weapons.

Gun nuts point the finger at countries who don't allow any half wit to own a military grade firearms and say "see it doesn't work" when the is one or two shootings, ignoring the thousands of shooting in the gun loving country.

:jerkoff:

In those countries stated above you are stating a year it occurred, in the US people are talking about which month and how many.

Just say it. We know shit tins of our citizens are killed by other citizens every year with firearms, but we don't care. Because that is really the answer, YOU DON"T CARE.
 

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In the U.S., the core problem underlying most mass murders is people with severe mental illness, who in 1960 would have hospitalized before chalk marks had to be drawn around bodies. If we solve the mental-illness issue, the guns do not matter. And focusing on the guns directs the severely mentally ill to other weapons.
Indeed, too true and too sad. That raises a question though, about funding for mental health services. Which political party considers health and education a more important issue than say, a wall, or defence, or tax cuts for the rich?


Statistically though, an American's chance of being killed by a gun is quite high, at least according to this site from 2015.


https://www.businessinsider.com.au/us-gun-death-murder-risk-statistics-2018-3?r=US&IR=T
 

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Don't Amerians say the funniest things? I heard a comedian say recently that Amercians know how to laugh, but don't have a sense of humour.

When I caught this on the radio s'morn, and thought it must have been a satirical thang, but of course, he was just an American conservative, with the typically funny name. And there it is again, the 'infamy' of Pearl Harbour. [My post, have you seen it floating around anywhere?]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-19/donald-trump-impeachment-compared-jesus-trial-pontius-pilate/11814344

So I tried to find transcripts of the Jesus trial to check, but no luck. Hysterics, hyperbole and exaggeration in lieu of reality. Never mind the consitiution, or the inconvenince of due process or the law, re-pelicans are unhappy so shouting will occurr.

Still, they make the clown we have in charge here seem a little less deranged.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-18/donald-trump-impeachment-explained-questions-answered/11755478

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-19/what-donald-trump-impeachment-means-for-america/11812626
 

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@Silent...

A committed Scientific mind distrusts all he sees, challenge assumptions, and constantly seeks to disprove false beliefs, hearsay and unfounded opinions-
The test of a truly scientific mind is to allways face the above fact, someone else will challenge your assumptions and often disprove your beliefs and unfounded opinions ..
Often you WILL stand corrected .. If you refuse that, through stubbornness or arrogance -- You have failed as a scientist..

That maxim applies to all reasonabale people, not just scientists. Socrates asserted that, apprently, a long time ago. But then Socrates, Jesus, and all the great philosophers, had not considered the champions of self-interest, the conservative.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_unexamined_life_is_not_worth_living
 

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Gun nuts point the finger at countries who don't allow any half wit to own a military grade firearms and say "see it doesn't work" when the is one or two shootings, ignoring the thousands of shooting in the gun loving country.

:jerkoff:

In those countries stated above you are stating a year it occurred, in the US people are talking about which month and how many.

Just say it. We know shit tins of our citizens are killed by other citizens every year with firearms, but we don't care. Because that is really the answer, YOU DON"T CARE.
What I was stating is that if someone want to kill people. They will find a way. You guys act like guns are the cause of it. Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people with a home made bomb. No gun involved. He found a way and even killed many more than if he was using a gun. And no I do not even own a gun.
 

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Opportunity

Its a simple fact: Civilian gun ownership in the world is usually measured in "Number of guns pr. 100 citizens"
For my country this number is 12 -- For the US of A it is 120 -- Yep -- Every US citizen has 1.2 guns :)
Frankly I wonder how they manage to keep gun crime at the low level it is .. :wink2:

@R1andrew: You are clearly not a proper american .. now go buy that gun .. :grin2:>:)

Btw: I may have mentioned this before .. I like guns and own more than the average for 100 other citizens here ... I still think that some form of restriction of gun ownership is needed to keep most of the loonies, fanatics and imbeciles from having firearms .. No legislation, no matter how restrictive, will keep the determined criminals form having guns.. If they have to, they will even build their own from old water-pipes, wire and wood...:|

So.. No the gun itself does not do the crime or murder, but pure opportunity alone will make the gun 10 times as readily available in the US, as in Denmark ... If you can not get your head around that simple fact -- I have a bridge I can sell you >:)
 

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Look who Prince Andrew invited to Windsor Castle for Princess Beatrice's 18th birthday party in August 2006

Want to bet how pissed off Queen Elizabeth is? Prince Andrew is fucked

It came out in English papers yesterday

Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein and his pimp/procurer Ghislaine Maxwell, the cunt that was at Chelsea Clinton's wedding
Looks like something from 2006. Seems back then everyone thought that crew was legit, including Donald Trump.
 

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What I was stating is that if someone want to kill people. They will find a way. You guys act like guns are the cause of it. Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people with a home made bomb. No gun involved. He found a way and even killed many more than if he was using a gun. And no I do not even own a gun.
And my response is, "So?"

373 people died in mass shootings alone in 2018. For anything not classified as an active shooter or mass shooting its delayed a year because its a much larger, and dispersed, count. But for 2017 there were 14,542 murders involving a firearm. Total murders were 19,510, so 3/4ths of total murders involved a gun. There were 23,854 suicides by gun in the same year, just over half of the total suicides. In 2017 the US beat out lovely places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen, Libya and Syria in gun deaths per 100,000 people.

So 373 we know "for sure" last year, but for 2017 we have the total tally at 38,396. Both are greater than your 168 from 2995.

We arent talking about a bombing from 1995. A bombing by the way that resulted in the AEDPA of 1996, caused states to regulate fertilizers, caused congress to regulate dynamite and the department of homeland security and Honeywell reformulated nitrogen fertilizer to make it ineffective when burned with fuel oil. Not to mention a complete rethink about building security.

Its a fun little snippet that a guy 25 years ago killed people without a gun to entertain ignorant people but its complete bullshit. Since then HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people have died by a gun. And with respect to McVeighs weapon both state and federal govts have regulated both the weapon, who can own it and our defenses against it. So if anything it seems to be a case for doing the same for guns since it seemed the regulations worked to prevent further nitrogen and fuel oil bombings.

Instead we do literally nothing. Even discussing minimal things like establishing a chain of custody nationwide, requiring a waiting period, restricting very specific types of guns (although most of the problems from ARs is like the pit bull, its the official gun of douche bags), enhanced background checks, licensing and magazine restrictions boils down to:

1. the second amendment, which guarantees the right to bear arms but literally says nothing about the types of arms, what kind of background check to get those arms, etc (and might only mean in the context of a militia anyway).

2. "Slippery slope." As if passing ANY gun legislation is just going to lead to Hillary Clinton in an APC driving through your living room and over the family dog to confiscate your guns. But again that is utter bullshit. Assault weapons WERE BANNED BEFORE. They were banned in 1994. The only reason AR-15s are popular again is the ban, which required renewal, expired. The one major piece of gun legislation passed in my lifetime wasnt a slippery slope, it ENDED.

BTW, I own two rifles, a handgun and an over/under. I used to own more but cut back on the hobby.
 

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If you really want to save everyone then outlaw tobacco.

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.

Second hand smoke kills more than guns by a large margin. But then in the long term of everything. The more people saved and the longer everyone lives, the more damage done to the planet. In the end, damage to the planet might kill us all.
 

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If you really want to save everyone then outlaw tobacco.

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.

Second hand smoke kills more than guns by a large margin. But then in the long term of everything. The more people saved and the longer everyone lives, the more damage done to the planet. In the end, damage to the planet might kill us all.
Classic redirection there mate:laugh:. How does changing tobacco laws change gun related deaths?
 

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It doesn’t. But the point is saving lives...is it not?

If it is not about saving lives, then it is just agenda pushing.
 

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Its more about protecting the masses against the nut jobs. How simple it was a gunman armed with 2 assault rifles brought of the shelf killed 51 injured another 40 odd, cost our country 100s of millions of dollars. Cigarettes don't mow down crowds of people.
Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.

Second hand smoke kills more than guns by a large margin. But then in the long term of everything. The more people saved and the longer everyone lives, the more damage done to the planet. In the end, damage to the planet might kill us all.
 

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The embarrassment of impeachment. "new bumper sticker "Impeach Trump, MAGA again"
Very good, and too true, echoing Socrates again.


The comeidian I refered to in an earlier post, who said that yanks don't have a sense of humour (Rich Hall, a yank) also said that 'Americans don't have opinions, they have bumper stickers.' Seems he was right.
 

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If you really want to save everyone then outlaw tobacco.

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.

Second hand smoke kills more than guns by a large margin. But then in the long term of everything. The more people saved and the longer everyone lives, the more damage done to the planet. In the end, damage to the planet might kill us all.
I think that is a fair point, although as others have noted, durries don't kill people en masse.


There are many similairites between tobacco and guns though. The continued sales of these dangerous products, usually marketed as 'your freedom to make individual choice', and in the cae of guns in the US, mumbo jumbo about the constitution, and the fact that they are both direct and indirect killers, and that fact being down played, is purely about profit. Profit, if necesary at any cost, for shareholders. Many people have shares in deadly industries without even knowing that they do, in superannuation funds, for example, becaue they have not bothered to find out where their money is being invested, and what the consequences of those investments may be.
 

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Andrew nice deflection but I do think they should also regulate the shit out of tobacco as well. Additionally, regulating tobacco doesn't stop all of those gun deaths. Last time I checked someone couldn't walk into an elementary school with a cigarette and kill 28 people. Why dont you try to debate the subject in good faith instead of just trying to change the subject?

Since were just saying "dont do anything with A because B is worse" why not just stop all breast cancer research/treatment as well? Lets just let everyone's mothers and wives die without spending even a minimal effort to help them because heart disease is worse. That is basically your argument at this point. Here is a novel idea, why not try to reduce BOTH? We are capable of doing two things at once as adults arent we?
 

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It doesn’t. But the point is saving lives...is it not?

If it is not about saving lives, then it is just agenda pushing.
If its not then why push the agenda? I know its a good talking point on the right but why else would someone say, "Hey, maybe we just take a moment to make sure the people getting these guns aren't irresponsible or outright dangerous. Maybe we also should rethink allowing your average idiot to buy what is effectively military grade hardware." Why spend any political capital unless you honestly believed there is something to gain from it? The idea that someone is pushing for gun control "just to push an agenda" might be the most facile thing I've ever heard.

What is MY agenda then? I'm for ownership but also promote registrations to create a chain of custody of the weapon, a waiting period to disrupt crimes of passion, holding the gun owner for others use of their gun and heavy restrictions on military replicas or assault style weapons (which we HAD until 2004).
 
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