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Discussion Starter #1
Mazda Laguna Seca Raceway announced on Monday, September 30, that they are no longer on the Moto GP calendar. Indy and Austin remain, at least for 2014.

Reading between the lines, it's apparent that the organizers at Laguna Seca (a non-profit) could no longer grease the palms of the fat cats at Dorna. Like so many race sanctioning bodies past and present, it's not about doing the right thing, it's about who you know and who you blow. This is how things get done, especially in Europe.

What we've lost is a truly unique experience for racers and fans alike. The race itself was on one of the most revered tracks in the world. The Corkscrew is known by race fans everywhere. The atmosphere surrounding this race was electric. The scene along Cannery Row in Monterey every evening was like an international carnival. People from all over the world gathering to share in a common passion. The infield displays by all of the major manufacturers was amazing. The effort put forth by the organizers and the community at large was exceptional. Vets driving around the track all day in golf carts offering free rides to anyone who needed one.

I admit that I've not been to Indy or Austin, but I encourage anyone who has to compare their races to the above. My impression of Indy is a flat track run on a featureless landscape. I've heard that the Circuit of the Americas is a pretty nice track, but there is little to no infrastructure in place. Although it may look like it, I'm not dissing on these races; I just want to know what they have to offer that might compel me to go.

More than anything, I'm pissed at Dorna. Before some of you vultures here jump on me about my comments Re sanctioning bodies and European sop's, I'll offer you some examples:

Youth stream: this is the group that runs World Championship Motocross. The Italian fat cat that runs this (Luongo)has changed the rules and regulations so much and so often that their premier class (MX1) now can only bring 20-25 riders into a starting gate built for 40. Apparently, he hasn't made the connection yet that by ELIMINATING the purse money, he has effectively eliminated half of the field. Wanna guess who pockets this money? Ask any MX fan in Europe what they think about this. Ask
Luongo if he cares.

FIM: this is the European version of our AMA. They are also responsible for selecting the venues for the annual MX De Nations. A few years ago, one FIM official changed the venue at the last minute to an American MX track. The only problem was that the track didn't actually exist! As the date approached, they continued to sell tickets even though they knew that the new track wouldn't be finished in time. Although most were refunded their tickets, this was little consolation to the riders, teams, and fans who had made travel plans. A shameful chapter in MX history. Surprisingly, no one went to jail. The American involved was effectively banned from MX. As far s I know, nothing happened to the FIM official. He simply got away with it. Didn't even return the bribe.

There are many other examples of corruption within sanctioning bodies all over the world, including the US. Greed allows a few players to dominate a series. Moto GP currently has only two competitive teams with two riders each. That's not by accident. I always thought that job one for any sanctioning body was to make the racing as safe as possible. Job two was to level the playing field. Say what you will about NASCAR, but I think their success can be attributed to doing job two pretty well. Maybe it's because they're not as short sighted (quick buck) as their counterparts in other forms of racing.

OK, flame on. Tell me about who you know, what honest people they are, and how they would never be party to something like this. Uh huh, and OJ was innocent. BTW, neither Dorna nor Moto GO has yet to comment on why Laguna Seca was removed from the calendar, offering instead just the brief press release put out by Laguna Seca. Classy as well as informative.

Regards,
Bob
 

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i have no clue about politics. but i was very disappointed that lacuna seca
was no longer on the Moto GP calendar. why keep something boring like
indianapolis and drop one of the races, where history in recent motorbike
racing was written?
 

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I think most would agree with the majority of your post - the only thing I would make a slight side-comment on is that in my experience there is no organisation more profit oriented than an American one, in most walks of life.

When it comes to money talking in motorsport promotion, twas ever thus, though it has compounded in recent years with the likes of Dorna, Flamini, Ecclestone, et al ..... With all making some rather dubious decisions about where race series should or shouldn't go ...... Then again that transfers across sports too - you've only got to watch the farce of the football world cup going to be played in summer in Qatar in a couple of years ......
 

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What's on the calendar in its stead?
 

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My wife and I attended the 2006 Laguna Seca round.

We knew that the 125cc & 250cc GP bikes would not be present. I'd never really thought about it in more detail other than I assumed that it was due to the emissions from the two strokes that did not allow them to race in California. I could be completely wrong about that - it was the only logical reason I could think of.

Now, forward to 2013, and we have the 250cc four strokes replacing the 125 cc bikes and the 600 cc four strokes replacing the 250cc two strokes but they are not present on the Laguna Seca grid. It's the only round that does not feature all three classes of bikes.

Maybe that's a factor here.
 

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Let's face it, if Dorna had their way then all the rounds would be in Spain!

It's a real shame as Indy is as dull as dishwater and due to the sheer size of the place it looks empty on race day making the rest of the world watching it on tv think why do they bother going to the states, no one there watches it :(
 

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wow, like most of you I think that is a real shame.

I will have to make my way to Austin or Indi next season before I miss my change to watch one of these races live!
 

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That's because Indy will hold over 500,000 people on the day of the 500. The crowds at ANY track for MotoGP are much much smaller.
 

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Laguna?

haven't been to Laguna Seca since '78......I was pitted next to Kenny Roberts WAAY out on the end....wrenching for Steve McLaughlin, National #1

some POS went into my tool box and stole my 3/4" SnapOn ratchet wrench and 36mm Belzer socket

I ever find it...... it'll be the Mangas Coloradas treatment......

look him up, a Chiricahua Apache and one serious MOFO

I hate thieves

you take my tool/tools that I make a living with

I will starve.....ie, you are trying to kill me

I will act accordingly

I don't go to the races for the spectacle, the offtrack BS like Cannery Row or the manufactures displays, I couldn't care less

I go to BE in the Pits and help/work with friends.....thats it
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Noel,

Thanks for another insightful contribution. Let's see how this one measures up to a typical Knurl post:

Turns any thread into another "it's all about me (The Knurl"). Narcissism beyond belief. Check

Unabashed name dropping. Check

Goes off on tangents having nothing to do with the topic. Check

Referring to personal experiences from 35 years ago. Check

Imperious opinion. Check

Moves the "give a shit" needle not one iota. Check

I could go on, but actually, we all could. Normally I would have this discussion with you privately, but we've already had that, remember? I would ask you to take some time for a little self-examination and learn a little humility, but that train left the station a long time ago, didn't it?

Some of you on this forum have asked me why I don't participate more. Still want to know? I don't need this kind of crap in my life. Noel is very knowledgeable in all things MV, and he has helped many of us (including myself) over the years. This does not excuse, however, this kind of attitude and/or behavior. Hopefully, this will cause Noel to back off the acerbic comments a bit. If not, I hope that some of you will start calling him out every time he does this. It's the only way to control him. Otherwise, prepare yourselves for more endless diatribes about everything on here. This is already too often the "Noel the Thread Killer" show. Ever ask yourselves why so many visit here and relatively so few participate? Read Noel's post above again for the answer.

I know that some of you will want to rush to Noel's defense here, and that's understandable. Before you do, however, consider this. Will you really be doing him or yourselves a favor? Read this again and ask yourselves if anything I've said in the above is untrue. If the answer is yes, then I deserve to be criticized for it. If the answer is no, then your silence alone is enough. I didn't intend this to become a "let's all jump on Noel" post. I sincerely hope that it will lead him to some self-discipline.

Regards,
Bob
 

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From the article that rickyleesurf posted: Dorna went up $800,000 on their fee and though Laguna Seca evidently draws 150,000 for the event, they can't swallow that increase. Indiana and Texas are providing funds / tax incentives to their tracks. California is not. Simple business decision.

As far as going to the races, they are all far enough from me that it is a long weekend trip - Indy being the closest at a 5-hour drive. I went to the Indy MotoGP the first 4 or 5 years it has run. Went to the Indy Mile dirt track races, hung out at the Motorcycles on Meridian Street in downtown Indy with thousands of bike riders each night, ate at some great restaurants in downtown Indy, and did a private Ducati track day on the Monday following a race at Putnam Park with Paul Smart and Cook Neilson.

At the track we visited vendors, did the pit walk, took demo bike rides, went to Ducati Island, ate some classic Indiana fried pork tenderloin sandwiches, and watched hours and hours of practice, qualifying and races.

I've not been to Laguna - will probably go one day for WSBK. And will probably go to Austin for either F1 or MotoGP. I'll take it all in when I go.

Noel, I can see how your background in the business might make you less interested in the non-race enjoyment opportunities. For a lot of us though, it can be more than just watching a race, and for those who were fond of MotoGP at Laguna, it's a loss.
 

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IMS isn't boring. I grew up about three miles from there.
Lacking elevation change, it certainly has a bit less character than many tracks. Nonetheless, there can be good racing there.
 

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And reconfiguring the track and repaving the entire thing for next year.....I'm looking forward to it again.
 

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Noel,



Thanks for another insightful contribution. Let's see how this one measures up to a typical Knurl post:



Turns any thread into another "it's all about me (The Knurl"). Narcissism beyond belief. Check



Unabashed name dropping. Check



Goes off on tangents having nothing to do with the topic. Check



Referring to personal experiences from 35 years ago. Check



Imperious opinion. Check



Moves the "give a shit" needle not one iota. Check



I could go on, but actually, we all could. Normally I would have this discussion with you privately, but we've already had that, remember? I would ask you to take some time for a little self-examination and learn a little humility, but that train left the station a long time ago, didn't it?



Some of you on this forum have asked me why I don't participate more. Still want to know? I don't need this kind of crap in my life. Noel is very knowledgeable in all things MV, and he has helped many of us (including myself) over the years. This does not excuse, however, this kind of attitude and/or behavior. Hopefully, this will cause Noel to back off the acerbic comments a bit. If not, I hope that some of you will start calling him out every time he does this. It's the only way to control him. Otherwise, prepare yourselves for more endless diatribes about everything on here. This is already too often the "Noel the Thread Killer" show. Ever ask yourselves why so many visit here and relatively so few participate? Read Noel's post above again for the answer.



I know that some of you will want to rush to Noel's defense here, and that's understandable. Before you do, however, consider this. Will you really be doing him or yourselves a favor? Read this again and ask yourselves if anything I've said in the above is untrue. If the answer is yes, then I deserve to be criticized for it. If the answer is no, then your silence alone is enough. I didn't intend this to become a "let's all jump on Noel" post. I sincerely hope that it will lead him to some self-discipline.



Regards,

Bob

I read the initial post and was interested in more of people's opinions in this thread, perhaps even contribute.

Then I read the post above and you lost me completely.

Noel is Noel, a true character of the forum, of which since Lee's passing we are sadly lacking in the forum. Beyond that he is an amazing person who will go above and beyond to help out fellow forumites (yourself included by your admission). My wife & I had the enormous pleasure of his company at Bubbalicious in 2011.

He has had some amazing experiences in his ''motorcycling life" it is a shame that recounting them is deemed name dropping & inappropriate - by you and so offensive.

Believe it or not some of us actually enjoy Noel's interludes on many threads, especially in heavy handed ones whence a break is welcomed.

You speak of Dorna's methods yet right here you advocate censorship nay you actually promote it by encouraging people to " start calling him out" every time that he breaches the protocols & etiquettes - set out by you?

You deem silence on your attack as vindication of your position? Seriously? I am offended or rather my intelligence is by this asinine tactic.

Glad I've never helped you if this is your version of thanks!

You call Noel narcissistic yet have you read your post? You start a thread, you deem someone's reply unsatisfactory, as they broke YOUR rules, you then assemble the masses to attack the intruder on your thread and are prepared to sacrifice your thread to make YOUR point. Glass houses anyone?

I for one, don't care if you post more or in less in future especially if this is going to be the nature of your work.

To Noel I say don't stop being 'Noel' because a well spoken narcissist hates the competition :laughing:

Welcome to the train wreck Bob, that is, the train that you chose to derail because letting something unimportant slide was beyond you - I wonder kind of dominant personality trait makes someone act like that!

Cheers
Rob

PS. I am not sure if (by your standards) I've done Noel a favour or not but I certainly know for a fact, that, by my standards I have done myself one and feel better for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hello Rob,

Thank you for your comments. Misplaced or misinformed though they may be, they do reflect a certain passion that you should be proud of. Kind of like conspiracy theorists who never let the actual facts get in the way of telling a really good story.

In response, I'll try to use small words and go slowly in hopes that you won't get lost again.

There is no question that Noel is very knowledgable and very experienced, and he unselfishly shares that knowledge and those life experiences with us. Sometimes, even when not asked. Such as the case here. You may recall that the OP was about Laguna Seca losing their Moto GP race. Perhaps you can explain to the rest of us how who Noel was pitted next to in 1978, someone stealing his tools, or some obscure reference to Indian folklore is relevant to the subject. Mad respect to you if you can.

BTW (by the way), I do have another question about that date. If Noel is ~53 now, that would mean he was 18 at the time. He would not have been working for Steve McLaughlin, he would have been working for Team Factory Suzuki. As good as he was/is, I doubt he was a factory mechanic at age 18. Maybe you can explain that as well.

Ask him. While you're at it, maybe you should ask him when he last attended a Moto GP race. How about if he has EVER attended a Moto GP race? The answers may surprise you. Noel told me that he hasn't been to any MC (motorcycle) races for many, many years because of having lost too many friends there. Those of us who have been involved in racing certainly understand and respect that. We've all lost too many friends. If he hasn't been to a race since before many of you were born, perhaps he should refrain (stop) from making comments like "I only go to races to BE in the pits and help my friends". Kind of disingenuous (BS), wouldn't you agree? Are you still following this Rob?

On a related matter, many here have racing backgrounds equally as rich as Noel's, and certainly more current. Many of these actually raced the bikes, not just worked on them. We just don't use this this forum as platform to brag about it. The next time you're at Bubba or a similar gathering, you can pick them out quite easily. They're the ones with a permanent limp!

You describe Noel as a character. Agreed. What's more important to you: to be a character, or to have character? Think about that for a while. Unfortunately, Noel too often uses his position here and his expertise to criticize, insult, and demean (put down) those who dare to ask "Noob" questions or, worse yet, question his answers or opinions.

Rob, the following is an anecdote (short story to illustrate (make) a point):

Here in the US, our Vice President is Joe Biden. "Uncle Joe" as he is called, is generally regarded as a baffoon by even his own party. This is due in part to his many legendary gaffes (verbal mistakes). Each time he adds another one, his defenders always rationalize (explain) by shrugging their shoulders and saying " It's just Joe being Joe". Sound familiar Rob? BTW, the running joke here by both sides is that Joe Biden is actually President Obama's life insurance policy.

Noel is not a bad person. He just needs a little tune-up now and then. Perhaps we all do. Believe it or not, I hope that this may do the trick. The world today has become so polarized (divided), that everything is seen in black or white. It's just not that simple. Most things and people are some shade of grey. Two truths can actually be operating at the same time. Noel, for example, can go above and beyond to help someone, and he can also go way over the top when disagreeing with someone else. It's not called censorship Rob, it's called civility (manners). Obviously, you've seen only the warm fuzzy side of Noel. Others here have experienced the other side. Now that you've had a taste of it from me, how does it feel? Do you think that I'm a character?

As far as narcissism is concerned, I would encourage you to go back to Noel's post here. There are only ten lines of text. Six of them begin with the word "I". If his first sentence was grammatically correct, it would be seven. Seven out of ten. What do you think Rob, just Noel being Noel? Maybe a little ego-centric (self-centered)? Maybe you should read some of Noel's other posts as well. I think that you'll see a pattern. Better yet, perhaps Noel should set up his own website: ....www.allaboutme.com.

Finally, I'll ask you to review your own post. Please show me where you actually claim that anything I said about Noel was not true.

I know that this won't be the last of this, but for now, I need to go. Thankfully, life exists for me outside of this forum. Racing and all that you know. Again, I apologize for being so hard on you, but I thought you might best learn by example. you and the others here need to start drawing your own lines lest this forum become dominated by people like Noel.

PS: You should see some of my emails!
 
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