[vivere]

I guess this one is aimed at Donsy and Noel as I'm not sure who else has had a gearbox in pieces....

The replacement I bought from Time Machine Bikes was no good as it would appear the R312 has larger shafts than the 1000S & R. Lesson learned..

I'm hoping that replacing all of the needle roller bearings (8000A0370 ) in the main and counter shaft will solve the wining gearbox. (2 on the main shaft and 4 on the counter shaft)

If the 2 main bearings in the case look OK (8000A1086 & 8000A2318) feel OK should these be replaced also? Should I replace the 2 seals (800064296 & 800089410) while I have it in pieces?

Thanks
J

 

[Donsy]

No harm in replacing them Jeremy, I didn't replace mine, but next time I will for sure. Also make sure you don't damage the seal on the gear selector shaft and clutch push rod shaft, they are the first to go.

 

[vivere]

Thanks Dons.
I will definately replace the 3 seals. The 2 larger bearings are quite expensive..

How do you deal with the 2 circlips on the main shaft that had been ground down to fit inside the gears? What a pain they were to remove as there is not much for the circlip pliers to hold on to...

 

[Donsy]

I'd be surprised if the bearing's caused the noise, but no expert, mine stopped sounding like a Boeing after I rebuilt, but I didn't replace the bearing's. Those circlip's are crazy, you should see them on the race box. :'(

 

[esq'z me]

Whining sound is likely coming from tight gear tooth lash, not bearings. One set of gears have teeth slightly tight (not a problem except noise). Loose gear tooth lash usually makes rattle noise.
Transmission circlips are critical parts. Make sure the sharp edge is facing the direction of thrust. Replace if at all tweaked during removal.

 

[vivere]

I'd be surprised if the bearing's caused the noise, but no expert, mine stopped sounding like a Boeing after I rebuilt, but I didn't replace the bearing's. Those circlip's are crazy, you should see them on the race box. :'(

Do you know the cause if it wasn't the bearings?

 

[theknurl]

Ed;
tight gears would eat bearings, never seen any tight gears.....I used to build GM Muncies, T-10s and Honda car trannys

bad bearings whine......bad ball bearings usually tear the cage up and get ugly, throwing cage pieces into the gears:jsm::jsm::jsm:

that's why you put the special slotted shim behind the input shaft bearing on GM Muncies and T-10s.....to keep trash out of the gears

 

[esq'z me]

Not tight like root to tip fit, tight like face to face fit...lash. Ever hear a rear diff with gears not shimmed right? I've seen it in transmissions too, manufacturing tolerance stack. Rare, but it happens.

 

[theknurl]

Not tight like root to tip fit, tight like face to face fit...lash. Ever hear a rear diff with gears not shimmed right? I've seen it in transmissions too, manufacturing tolerance stack. Rare, but it happens.

the sides of gears where they bear on shims is smooth....no way to make noise.....thats side play not lash

spider, side gears and ring and pinions are whole different can of worms.....its depth of engagement of the gears

lash or backlash is the play between two meshing sets of gear teeth

Kawasakis and new BMWs have a spring loaded sheet metal gear off set to the main gear on clutch baskets.....to cut down on noise, maybe other bikes do too

 

[esq'z me]

Yep, I know why the diff gears whine when not shimmed correctly....that's just what I was talking about.mdepth of engagement changes lash.
Lots of bikes with scissor gears out there. The TL1000 Suzuki, among others, has them on the cam gears. Primary gears are quite common. The new Indian Thunderstroke has scissor gears.

 

[vivere]

I'm about to start putting it back together. Any last minute golden advice?

 

[Donsy]

Carefull with those three bolts holding the gear selector assembly in, I think their made out of lead.

 

[theknurl]

Not tight like root to tip fit, tight like face to face fit...lash. Ever hear a rear diff with gears not shimmed right? I've seen it in transmissions too, manufacturing tolerance stack. Rare, but it happens.

Ed;

as defined by Machinery's Handbook*

"lash or backlash";
is play at the measured at the pitch circles

"face of a tooth";
the surface between the pitch circle and the tip of the tooth

"face width";
length of tooth in axial plane

those are the 'faces' of a gear

what you are calling 'faces' are the "sides or ends" of the gears, hence "setting end play"

on transmissions you can't shim backlash....the shafts are on fixed centers

*18th Ed p. 710

 

[Donsy]

I'm about to start putting it back together. Any last minute golden advice?

Jeremy, are you using a sealer on the case faces as well as the O-rings, I would/did.
If you have any snags, just text me, I'm at home in traction at the moment after some ct sleeve injections on the spine, can't do anything else atm.

 

[esq'z me]

Noel....I know you can't shim transmission gear lash. Come on, how long do you think I've been working on these things? But occasionally manufacturing tolerance stack will result in a noisy gear set. Usually just a single gear ratio, say 5th, and replacing that gear set will eliminate the noise.

I've seen it, lived it, fixed it.

 

[Donsy]

Hi "J", how did you go getting it all together mate ?
I just read your original post again about the 1078 shaft's being bigger that the 1000S - R models. If you still have them, I might be keen on grabbing it from you as I think they might work as spares for my race gearboxes, as they are also a bigger size to my 1000R gearboxes, at least maybe the clutch shaft side.
Let me know when you have a moment, then we can compare/share some shaft sizes, hhhmm, that does not sound right, but you know what I mean.

 

[vivere]

All Good!

Well, it has been a week of firsts...
First time I have cut a chain link
First time I have stripped a gearbox down (and put it back together)
First time I have riveted a chain back together...

And I have to say it has all gone sensationally well!

Gearbox noise has gone and the shift is smooth as silk.

Thankyou everybody for your help, especially Donsy for his always balanced advice.

 

[vivere]

Hi "J", how did you go getting it all together mate ?
I just read your original post again about the 1078 shaft's being bigger that the 1000S - R models. If you still have them, I might be keen on grabbing it from you as I think they might work as spares for my race gearboxes, as they are also a bigger size to my 1000R gearboxes, at least maybe the clutch shaft side.
Let me know when you have a moment, then we can compare/share some shaft sizes, hhhmm, that does not sound right, but you know what I mean.

Hi Donsy,
I hope you back is feeling better?

The gearbox I received had the smaller shafts and my 1000 R312 is fitted with the larger shafts so I guess the "spare" box I have is no good for you? I did measure the 2 shafts and I posted the differences.
http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/showpost.php?p=851153&postcount=24

 

[Donsy]

Great to see you're a happy chappy man, big job, well done.

 

[vivere]

Thanks Donsy. There is a certain satisfaction in doing it yourself. I learnt a lot in the process and have a *much better* understanding of how the drive chain works in my bike.