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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
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So the 312R has been sitting in the corner with an N95 mask on like so many of us for a couple of years now. A brief turn of the key revealed a lack of any usual sounds so a quick prod of the wires pointed to a fuel pump issue. After a little investigation the tank was pulled to discover this little shop of horrors. It looks like ethanol has actually turned the immersed fuel lines into a substance resembling jellied snot.
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Even the in tank filter has crapped itself in a bad way.
The really worrying part is the bike was only ever filled with premium fuel so must have got a bad tank full somewhere.
The IOM is high on the list of suspects but I’m fairly sure that would have been washed out before resting up.
Either way if you’ve got an F4 stored my suggestion is to add fuel stabilisers and run it for a while then drain the tank just to be sure.
Some J30R10 Gates hosing has turned up and will be fitted with a fresh KL145 Mahle filter and a new pump screen.
Hope your milage varies from this but if you have a stored F4 maybe just smell the fuel and if it reeks of white spirit get the cheque book out pronto.
 

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@Farshore - J30R9 hose is not immersible in fuel. The J30R10 is.

Fuel, ethanol or not, will deteriorate in tank fuel lines. That is why they are a 3 year maintenance item.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yeah I meant J10 edited for clarity.
Is the in-tank fuel filter a three year service item as well?
Here’s one from a CB750 showing similar degradation from Ethanol the green is the give away.
Funnily enough that’s not on Honda’s service schedule either.
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Most bike manufacturers recommend replacing rubber fuel hoses every 4 years.... They also recommend replacing rubber BRAKE hoses every 4 years, but nobody does.
It doesn't take E10 gas to kill those internal hoses but it certainly accelerates the problem.
Filters like the petcock you show or the pump screen should not be so affected, although they do get brittle with age. They are plastic not rubber.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Thanks buddy got a filter screen on order from our two Flemish vrienden for a surprisingly reasonable price.
The filter screens in the CB750 had been converted into mushed pulp in the same way the 312 filter was heading.
These are not service items in any service schedule as far as I’m aware but always happy to be corrected.

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It’s strange that along with the filter damage the only hoses to have been converted into jelly were the fuel lines, the other drain hoses and the rubber pump mounting all seem fine albeit a little glazed from the ethanol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Perhaps directly related to the jellification of the fuel lines and another wonderful effect from the ethanol is due to the bacteria in it digesting and producing acids which in turn cause corrosion in ferrous metals such as petrol tanks. The picture below is from the CB tank but the story with the F4 tank is exactly the same if a tiny little less corroded.

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Here’s the science for those benefiting from an enquiring mind.
“As ethanol attracts and holds water, it is the perfect medium for growing a bacterium known as Acetobacter in the gas tank. One byproduct from Acetobacter is acetic acid, which causes corrosion within the fuel system.”

Microbially influenced corrosion communities associated with fuel-grade ethanol environments

Thankfully diverting some of the vinegar from my fish and chips into the tank will help to sort that out and a good couple of spoonfuls of stabiliser should keep things on track going forward.
 

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Table vinegar is 5 to 10% acetic acid. Coca Cola has phosphoric acid, it cleans metal really well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Table vinegar is 5 to 10% acetic acid.
White distilled vinegar seems to be a gentle option and do the trick.
Have tried cola in the past maybe the budget variety is less punchy might have to give it another shot.

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Most bike manufacturers recommend replacing rubber fuel hoses every 4 years.... They also recommend replacing rubber BRAKE hoses every 4 years, but nobody does.
It doesn't take E10 gas to kill those internal hoses but it certainly accelerates the problem.
Filters like the petcock you show or the pump screen should not be so affected, although they do get brittle with age. They are plastic not rubber.
Quite a contrast to the in-tank pump set up from the 2000 Cagiva Raptor. It’s been modified for an external filter but these hoses seem to have survived pretty well.

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What absolute nonsense. Where do you come up with this garbage?
From experience with fuel system failures and reading fuel and elastomer technical documentation.
What is your source of opinion?
 

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I would like to know also.What exactly do you mean?I thought Chuck made a fair comment.
Had to edit,I got names wrong,sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
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So further investigations into the ethanol effects inside the fuel tank. The green glazing over everything is classic ethanol and the tide mark on the filter shows the fuel level in the tank. The sand type substance appears to be a mixture of corrosion and maybe the ethanol glazing mixed with rust once dried, not sure. The pump filter has been completely destroyed by the ethanol the gauze screens had become like butterfly wings. Although wearing gloves for most of the work a little of the old fuel did get on my hands which have now started peeling badly.
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Put the haribo hoses in a plastic bag and they just disintegrated in there.
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
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Here’s the inside of the tank the corrosion isn’t that heavy.
 

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Did you ever wonder why J30R14 tubing is about a dollar a foot and J30R10 tubing is about 20 dollars a foot?
Die you ever wonder why J30R14 is readily available in bulk lengths and J30R10 is difficult to find in bilk lengths?

That is because J30 R14 IS NOT DEDIGNED FOR IMMERSION IN FUEL. It is fuel resistant and high temperature for use under the hood of small engine compartments. Those fuel injection hoses tend to be long lengths.

Font Number Screenshot Document Paper


Now J30R10 is the standard for fuel line used that will be submerged in fuel...such as in the short lengths in Fuel Tanks.

Font Rectangle Number Circle Screenshot


Whomever sold you the R14 as a submerged line is blowing sunshine up your skirt.

There is an acceptable PTFE replacement however.

The specification you show is for under hood and is more resistant to ethanol.
 
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Having experienced Yamaha's "Green Slime" problems in the early 1980's I am going to suggest the fuel in your tank had something other than ethanol in it.
In the early 1980's Yamaha built an excess of motorcycles in their "war" with Honda over US market supremacy. This coincided with a major decline in motorcycle sales and Yamaha was stuck with thousands of bikes in the warehouse for a long period of time. It also resulted in some really low prices on "non-current" models for the next few years.
But the biggest issue Yamaha faced was "green slime" in the carburetors of those bikes.
It seems the gasoline the bikes were run on at the final QA station prior to crating for shipment had some additive that did not store well. Now, this is in the days before wide spread ethanol in gas. It was not ethanol.
The carbs developed a smelly green corrosive internal coating and were extremely difficult to clean and repair.
The carbs were hooked directly to the fuel supply for the test run so the tanks would remain dry for shipment...but the carbs were not drained.
Yamaha spent many thousands of dollars in warranty repairs by the dealer network pre-sale and even went so far as to develop a new carb cleaner, which gained a reputation as the best stuff available for many years after.
Cleaning those carbs had a deleterious affect on your hands...both smell (green slime really stunk) and drying of the skin.
It looked just like what you have in your MV pump.
I have never seen E10 gasoline deteriorate the plastic pieces like you have...rubber yes.
 
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