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Discussion Starter #1
Reading Sventekoz's post about his false neutral in 6th reminds me of an issue I've been having.

Under HARD acceleration...like freeway on-ramp 90% to WFO throttle position...my bike will often slip out of second gear. I use clutchless upshifts and think I'm being pretty solid, though I'm certainly not a gorilla about it. My chain is on the loose side of spec - maybe a little outside of that - but the problem started when the chain was still within specs (BTW, anyone know if there's a problem w/ tightening the chain w/ the bike on the side stand? The old owner wanted $100 for it so I don't have a stand at the moment).

Anyone else experience this?
 

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King of the Sink
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Nope - luckily I haven't had that one yet (touch wood)...
 

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No problem with using side stand for chain adjust.! Did it all the time with my Trump. SP3
 

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King of the Sink
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According to everything I've heard and read, if you do it properly there's no problem with clutchless upshifts.
 

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During the first few hunderd miles on my new 910s it liked missing second and sixth gear a good bit and finding a false neutral. I use my clutch when changing gears. On a short ride last weekend the gear box seemed to shift a lot better and I had zero false neutrals - so maybe break-in time is all it needs.

If you are past break-in, maybe you should take it to the dealer and have it checked out.
 

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Sounds like it only happens when your hard on the gas. Has it ever missed when shifting normal? Clutchless shifting won't harm the bike, but learn how to do it properly.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
First of all, thanks for the input...from everyone.

Yes, it only happens when I'm hard on the gas.

FWIW, and there's no way to put this that doesn't sound like defensive bragging, but I spent a couple of years on the staff at a pretty major cycle rag. I know how to upshift properly w/o the clutch. In this case the method of shifting may not be important, but most of the time when I'm on the gas that hard I'm also shifting without a clutch, so that has yet to be tested.

It doesn't miss...it falls out. Almost like the dogs have gotten old and cut. I wouldn't be surprised to have this happen on an older bike. I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced similar problems. In the mean time I'll adjust the lever down so that I'm positive a have full engagement, then see if I can't reproduce the problem.

The bike's got about 3500 miles on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If you look VERY closely at my avatar you'll see where it says MotorCyclist on the sleeve. I came in shortly after Burnsy left and stayed until Cook left (it was a little turbulent). FWIW, I was the low guy on the staff and spent far more time learning than opining, and mostly wrote about gear and gadgets, but I did learn a LOT...especially about how to ride the snot out of other people's bikes. I was credited as the "Test Fleet Manager" on the masthead.

IOW, I know a lot about some things, and very little about others.

-Hunter Moore
 

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Dirty oil and improper chain adjustment will cause the problem that you describe. have you ever noticed when you have fresh oil in the sump how much smoother gear engagement is ? also proper chain adjustment does effect shifting action, when the chain is too tight it 's harder to shift into any gear, when it's too loose you have to be more deliberate in your shifting action and give the extra 1/2 sec to make sure your gear of choice is fully engaged. when I adjust my chain I do it on the rear stand and if I have someone around to help I will get my weight on the bike and have the helper check for the 6mm slack. next time you adjust the chain on the side stand, set it for the 6mm slack and then sit on the bike and have someone check the slack, you will find that you won't your 6mm anymore due to suspension compression. hope this helps
 

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.... when I adjust my chain I do it on the rear stand and if I have someone around to help I will get my weight on the bike and have the helper check for the 6mm slack. next time you adjust the chain on the side stand, set it for the 6mm slack and then sit on the bike and have someone check the slack, you will find that you won't your 6mm anymore due to suspension compression. hope this helps
Ok, so you're saying that the 6 mm should be measured with me sitting on it?
 

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First...about the chain.....extremely important that you NOT overtighten the chain (unless you want your rear wheel bearings to go out quickly). Better a bit loose than too tight. Buy a rear stand. May I recommend Pit Bull??

About your transmission....you are experiencing the classic symptom of a bent shift fork and the rounding of the engagement dogs on the gear set. This results from extensive clutchless shifting over many miles, or missed shifts over a few miles. It will only get worse, and more costly to repair as time goes by. Every time it slips out the edges of the gear dogs wear a bit more, and the fork gets a bit worse.

Good news for you....the cassette gear box is easily removed for repairs (this IS a race bike engine). Parts and labor will be much less then the same repair on a Japanese sport bike.

For normal every day riding, using the clucth is highly recommended to minimize wear and extend the life of your gearbox. Yes, you can do clutchless shifts and not hurt much, but that is a technique primarily suited for the race track where hundredths of a second are important to win. Just remember, a race bike will get stripped down and inspected fairly often and wear is not a problem. If you plan to keep your MV for any length of time and miles you will be well advised to use the clutch, even when you do a track day. There is NO benefit to clutchless shifting if you are not racing for money (or maybe a big trophy).
 

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Good post Ed
 

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I tend to agree with esq'z me. I think you probably bent the shift fork which is keeping the second gear set from fully engaging the dogs.

That being said here is some food for thought:
The MV tends to be very sensitive to oil condition. when the oil gets old, the transmission tends to get a bit more clunky and not operate as well. I have never had another bike be as sensitive to the oil. If the oil is old you may try changing the oil.
If you are using aftermarket rearsets the linkage might be loose which would also cause difficulty shifting, although the fact it only occurs in second tends to indicate a transmission problem.

What is up with the owner keeping the original stand? It was included with the bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Um...Ed? Are you talking to me? My posts are all from a couple of years ago, when it turned out that a retaining bolt inside the gearbox somehow fell out, went rattling around, broke the bracket out of which it had fallen, knocked off a couple of teeth from third gear and put a crack through second. Furthermore, the loss of that particular mount point apparently allowed the transmission to shake back and forth and bang itself a hole through to the crank case.

Thankfully, the guys at ProItalia treated me very well and got the whole transmission/engine rebuild covered under warranty (for reasons having nothing to do with me it was not certain this bike would be covered). But it was NOT quick. They had my bike for over 4.5 months. Mostly waiting for parts. FWIW, had I had to pay for it it would have set me back $4100.

And the owner keeping the original stand, then wanting me to buy it from him? We're talking about the same guy who managed to bin the bike at 206 miles. Make your own judgments.
 

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Wow, I didn't even look at the original date of the posting. Weird failure, but glad the guys at pro italia took good care of you.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yeah. Apparently it's happened to exactly one other Brutale. That one was in Italy and failed completely, so he got a new engine. I caught mine early and so got a rebuild.

Since I am now fairly confident that every piece of that engine has been checked by a competent mechanic, I think I'm probably better off than with the new engine,

BTW, I DO appreciate the input. Not sure if that was clear through my defensive posting.
 

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Yeah....just looked at the original dates. :loser:

Wow...funny how old threads get resurrected sometimes. Well, glad it was handled without extreme cost (other than lost time) some 2 + years ago.

I stand behind my discussion of clutchless shifting and diagnosis of bent fork/worn gear dogs when transmission slip out of one gear under load. Like I said, internal transmission. :nerd:
 
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