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Discussion Starter #1
The Ducati V4R is now down on power and cannot stay in the new Honda CBR1000RRR slip stream.
Ducati has petitioned DORNA to lift RPM penalty Dorna has not penalized Honda the way they did Ducati and Kawasaki so IMHO it is only fair to lift the penaltied of BOTH the Ducati AND Kawasaki.

If DORNA does not lift the penalties it shows blatant favortism to Honda .
 

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Or it shows your bias ?

Dorna don't set the rules, they just own the rights to run the series. The FIM set the rules that have to be ratified by the MSMA, Dorna, the FIM. So Dorna cannot decide to 'just do anything', the sports governing body does.

The WSB rules that you agree to compete under are clear, in that there is a levelling formula used. This is what you sign up to, when you race. It was just this reason that the Ducati's won so many championships in the past, when the bike could not compete at club level, but only where the factory teams had the cash. So forgive me if someone cry's fowl for Ducati, some might say what goes around comes around. At least now we have a system and Scott Smart is a bright guy and the system is probably better than its ever been.

It's a pseudo production class and they want a level(ish) playing field. How you do that is very difficult and I for one would not want to work out how exactly to do this, while being fair without someone crying foul. For years Honda were in the wilderness, for example post Slight & Edwards on the RC51, and when Rea raced for them on the CBR, so were Kawasaki before Sykes. The Sporting regs are there for good viewing and balanced manufacturers (each gets a chance to win), sport is there to make money. Controversy, implied or actual is a great way to keep debate up, just look at the FIM and the Ferrari statement.

I can't see a way of ever making it balanced, without so many constraints that it becomes a single make championship, that said a dominant manufacturer makes for boring racing.

2.4.2.1 Balancing various motorcycle concepts
a) In order to equalise the performance of different brands of machine rev limits will be individually applied to each brand.
b) Each season will begin with the same rev limits as the previous season finished.
c) The rev limit will be adjusted according to Art. 2.4.3.2.
d) Updated machines with the same basic engine design will continue with the manufacturers previous rev limit. Any new machines entering with a redesigned engine will have their rev limit set by calculation.
e) The initial rev limit will be the dynamometer measured rev limit of 3rd & 4th gear averaged, plus 3% or 1100 rpm above the dyno measured max horsepower rpm of a production machine, whichever is lower.
f) The limiter in all gears will be analysed to check for anomalies.
g) The dyno test will take place during the homologation inspection. (See part 4.0 Homologation, 1.4.b)
h) The Superbike Commission can at any time modify the handicap system to ensure fair competition.
2.4.2.2 Balancing Calculation
1. The FIM/DWO algorithm will be used to balance the performance of the machines relative to one another.
2. The algorithm may include but not be limited to the following signals:
a) Lap time relative to all other competitors
b) Speed traps
c) Number of riders per brand
d) Anticipated individual rider performance
i) Per track
ii) Considering preceding rounds
e) Race results
f) Laps led
g) Overall race time
h) Change in balance following any rpm limiter changes
i) Bias towards recent results reflecting current performance
j) Any concession part updates being applied
3. The rev limit may be updated (according to Art. 2.4.3.2) at the end of every 3rd event provided at least 3 events remain in the season.
4. The rev limit may also be updated at the end of the season.
5. FIM/DWO reserves the right to update the rpm balance at their discretion in the case of an imbalance.
6. “Wet” races (as declared by the Race Director) are not taken in account for the calculation.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the info dan, It seems they(FIM) can do what ever they please. I actually approve of helping LOWER tech engines through displacement so all can participate. But against penalizing manufacturers for developing new/better high tech engines. Developing new tech is one of the main reasons Manufacturers get into racing .
 

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That's the point of the 3 way agreement. Neither Dorna, MSMA or the FIM can unilaterally change the rules. With the exception of safety.

So to change the balancing method, all 3 need to agree.

It prevents too much bias in a rule change, but the downside is that it can be hard to get big changes through as all need to agree.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Reguardless of the process, its wrong to impede progress ofnew deelopement. So far the only thing impeding new tech has done is piss off Aprilia Kawasaki ,Ducati and increase engineering costs for the manufacturers when they try to recoup the performance loss from impeding technology .
 

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but that's what Superbikes has always done, its not new, remember gear driven cams with aprilia?

If its a new tech race, cash is king, so smaller manufacturer will not be able to compete e.g. MV. Very rarely has the winner of the WSB championship been the best bike on the road or track, unless you spend 000's on upgrades. We also ban the use of Ti etc..

Like I say its not a conspiracy, it more transparent and controlled than ever. In the past Ducati, could write the rules.

A free for all does not make for good racing at WSB level, that's why they have gone down this road.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes dan but they didnt penalize new tech they helped lower tech. Its ALOT harder to get the same HP from a twin than a inline or v4 so they allowed Ducati more displacement . I never could see the problem of gear driven cams as far as i know gear driven cams do not add HP? The F3 uses an inline 3 so they allow for an extra 75cc. Works well and no ones pissed off.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
BTW i remember when Ducati started racing. They went to AMA and they laughed at Ducati thinking NO ONE could build a twin that would be competitive with an inline 4. So the AMA gave them anyhting they wanted.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Years ago Ridley Scott wrote an article on the most inexpensive way a sanctioning body could set up a Superbike class. At first it sounds backwards but letting the teams take a atandard Superbike/literbike and work it to the max even with trick one off parts ect is SO much cheaper than building 500 holomogation specials. A factory might make 6 to 8 trick bikes in a 2 man team but that WAY cheaper than constructing 500-1000 holomogation specials. The performance between manufacturers leveled out also. Privateer teams took it hard but dont they always?

THE greatest ? holomogation special Superbike has to be the Harley Davidson VR1000. The Japanese manufacturers wanted to race against Harley so bad they allowed Harley to build there Superbike FROM THE GROUND UP. A Harley MotoGP bike.They also cut the production number to 50 and harley ended up making 20 or 25 the AMA took Harleys word never checking themselves.
How they lost is a mystery. Good rider in Pascal Picotte the VR1000 was a sweet handling bike but it always lacked the power of the Ducati 888 V-Twin which as you know is a true production engine .
Porshe designed the engine. I do not think Porshe will ever try there hand at motorcycle racing engines again after the embarrassing showing.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Dan bottom line is if the rules are fair. Realistically ,Kawasaki got penalized for having the fastest rider on the grid and Ducati was penalized for developing a new V-4 that had more power than the japanese inline 4s (as you know v4 design makes more power due to better balancing=read this various places) But in racing your SUPPOSED to try to design an engine with the most hp . Your SUPPOSED to try and hire the fastest rider you can . The penaties are IMHO rediculous .

Do you think the penalties should be recinded?
 
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