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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Folks,

Thanks in advance for any information and apologies for asking questions that no doubt have already been asked (but could not find even though searched)

I currently own a Ducati 1198 and I commute to work (as well as the frequent country ride). The 1198 is a great bike but an absolute PITA in the city. The anti pollution setup makes performance under 3000 rpm garbage. Add to this the two big pots lugging at anything below 3000 - 3500rpm anyway it essentially means I cant get out of 2nd gear or Im breaking the speed limit. Very hard work indeed.

So im thinking of ditching the 1198 and getting a lovely Italian 4 ie F4 either the 1000 or the 312 (probably a 2006-2008 model), realising that the MV is not an ideal commuter (Ive got to get to work somehow). So a couple of questions;

What is the essential difference between the F4, R and the 1+1?

Im assuming that being a four it is not as sensitive to low revs as a twin so can run reasonably comfortably at less than 3000rpm in low gears (like most jap fours).

How much of a problem is the rear wheel bearing issue?

Is the gear box as bad as some journalists report?

Any common problems that I should look out for (low KM bike is preferred but Im not against getting one with 30000-40000km (18-24thou miles)). I am aware of upgrading the fan and water pump, especially for city riding.

Any models/years particularly known to be unreliable?

Any idea why MV recommend 10w60 oil when just about every one else recommends 10w40. Last i looked even HD with its wide manufacturing tolerances recommended 20w50.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Cheers
 

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Welcome Steve. Having not owned a 1198, I can't give you a direct comparison, I have got a Ducati with a litre engine though and they are far lumpier (is that a word?) at low revs than the IL4 MV, but I can tell you my F4 is a pig in traffic (i.e. commuting to work). You haven't said which country you are in, but in the warmer climes you are probably aware the F4 can get very hot. The underseat exhausts don't help in that respect, but then you've got those on the 1198 so no change there really. Here in the UK, the overheating isn't such an issue because our ambient temperatures are lower than say SoCal or the Gold Coast in Oz. You haven't said how far your commute is? If it is less than say 20 miles, I'd get a small bike specifically for the commute and keep the F4 for the twisties.

If you get the new 2010 + F4, the rear hub issues have been sorted by the factory. But you did say it's an earlier bike you are looking at so there are loads of threads here on what NOT to do. Basically, if you look after your existing hub and keep a close eye on chain tension etc. you should be OK. You can get the modified hub for the earlier bikes but it's not cheap. Noel and Donsy have come up with a better solution.

I've had two F4's now (a 750 and a 1000) and the gearbox on both has been fine, in fact better than fine, I don't think there are any issues with the gearboxes 312R or RR. I did test ride a 2010 bike last year and the gearbox on that was notchy but the guys who own one would be better placed than I to tell you if that was just a one off or there is an issue there.

Re oil, I just make sure I use full synthetic the SAE number isn't too critical IMHO. You'd expect us to say this but a F4 is a great bike, I don't think you'd regret it if you buy one.

I have a 2005 1000S, no radial front end as standard. The 1000R and later bikes than mine do have the radial front end. The 1 + 1 is just that, a bike with a pillion seat, most of the F4 models had the option for monoposto or 1 + 1 but the 2010 plus bikes I believe are all 1 + 1. You can convert a 1 + 1 to monoposto and vice versa if you wish. 312R has a 998cc engined bike whereas the 312RR has a 1078 motor. Hope this helps
 

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Hi Steventh, Welcome to the Forum. Obviously you will get some biased comments on here, but you will get a good idea of the F4.
COMFORT: I commute Every day. 90mile round trip. Im 6ft 1 and 30 years old so im still a youngster, but I find the F4 very comfortable to commute on. Lots of people whinge about only being able to do 100 miles on them. Thats absolute bollocks unless of course you have back problems. Ive just come back from a tour round Europe, 600 miles a day. Yes I had a sore bum at the end of each day but not terrible, so commuting as far as comfort goes is fine.

GEARBOX: The bike has lots of Torque, you can easily pull away from a standstill in 2nd gear, you dont need to ever but you can. Ive not actually read any bad reviews on the gearbox, but then ive not read any reviews at all. Ive NEVER thought that the gear box could have been better, its always performed faultlessly for me.

Temperature: Now this is a problem depending on where you live, in fact, its a problem anywhere really. This morning my bike got up to 105deg C, i work in London and its a cold morning. You can cruise along at 50mph and its fine, if you drop down to 30 in traffic, the temp will go from 80deg C up to 95-100 in about 2 miles. There are things which can be done to fix this as you mentioned, the muzzy blades etc. Ive not done this, but i will one day. If you live in hot country then i would suggest it be an immediate fix. When the bike gets too hot there is a 40amp fuse on the left of the frame next to the engine and right near the only vents in the fairing. The fans blow all the hot air past the fuse and out of the fairing, when its really hot and theres no air flow, ie you are going slowly, these fuses can melt. Mine has! These fuses are for the alternator i beleive, if one goes you have about 15 minutes of battery life left before you are stranded at the side of the road in Belgium ;-)

Fuel - If i treat it carefully I can actually get 155 miles out of a tank! My route is an A road(main road) all the way to work except for about 3 miles, i sit at about 80 most of the way. The reserve light gives you about 15 miles. I think its a 16litre tank, it costs me £24 to fill it up.

Rear Wheel Bearing: Youve more than likely read all the storys on this, it does seem to be the weakest part of the bike, HOWEVER, ive got 25,000miles on mine and its fine. YOU MUST treat it carefully. When you adjust the chain, undo each bolt mm by mm in swapping over each time. Tighten the chain to less then the manufacturers recommended level (there are no problems in doing this and dont let anyone tell you otherwise), then retighten the bolts bit by bit up to just under the spec torque. Again this is not a problem. Lube the chain and check it regularly. Just make sure whoever services your bike is FULLY aware of your requests, dont let some monkey take an allen key to these bolts and under them one after the after and then crank them back up to whatever they feel like. your hub will last 200 miles.

Throttle: Some people have a problem with a snatchy on/off throttle control, i know what they mean but its not really causing me a problem, its never caused me a problem and i ride through a lot of heavy traffic. You can remove one of the throttle return springs though as there are 2, this improves it....

Common Problems: Ive dropped my bike so had to do a few things to it, but these were all caused by the fall, Ive had nothing go wrong AT ALL with general wear and tear. The radiators are weak and if you drop it, you will get a leak! its the law!

As for the oil, I use 10 60, Fully synthetic Rock Oil, never had a problem, change my oil and filter every 3000miles.

Dont use a datatool alarm, they are SHITE!

Ive owned several bikes, this is the best one ive owned for pretty much everything. I had a 916, i couldnt have toured around Europe on that, no way! I commuted on it but it wasnt easy. They are obviously great road race bikes though, almost as good as the MV.
I had an R1, nice commuter and could have probably done Europe on it, but................wouldnt have been the same. The noise from an F4 from low revs under full load is ADDICTIVE, she Barks! The R1 is just a quick bike.
I guess the F4 is like a real sexy woman who cant cook, yes it can be hard work at times. Yes it costs more then other bikes, yes there are things that other bikes will be able to do that yours cant, BUT are you really that bothered about those other things?? When you got the F4 into the sack you will forget about everything else that doesnt matter and things will all make sense and you will feel sorry for all those other guys on jap bikes :)

As you can tell - i like my F4 and wouldnt swap it for anything in the world. well........probably :)

BTW I have a 2006 F41000s since new.
 

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Hi Steventh,
I have the best of both worlds mate.......an F4 312R plus an S4R Monster in the garage and love them both. But to commute daily, i wouldn't recommend either. The Monster gets cranky below 3500 revs and the MV can get hot and bothered. Don't get me wrong though, both can cope reasonably well in those conditions but as an every day commute, it could be a testing time. Neither of the two were made or designed for that type of riding but that doesn't mean that you can't. Before i bought my MV everyone was telling me that it was designed for around an hours ride..........pffffffft.......what a load of sh..t that is. After purchasing it from a private buyer, i rode it 1000k in a day to get it home......and had a ball, slept well that night though...! Buy the bike mate, then get a cheap commuter, my two cents worth.

Brian
 

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Buy the bike mate, then get a cheap commuter, my two cents worth.

Brian
That would be the perfect answer, plus that way you dont put loads of miles and wear and tear on your MV. If i could afford it, thats what i would do. Although, id probably get bored of the daily commuter and bust out the F4 everyday instead :f4:
 

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Oil

MV recommend a 10w 60 oil mainly to cope with the higher than normal engine temps on the F4.
A good quality 100% synthetic 15w 50 will be alright at any temp you are likely to see in traffic.
I run my 750 track F4s on 5w 30 because at the constant higher speed attained on track, the water temp is much lower, for me, than street riding.
Buy and enjoy.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Folks,

Thanks for the quick responses.

To answer a couple of questions, I'm in Sydney Australia so it gets hot. The 1198 seems similar to the MV getting very hot in traffic (105C+) which cooks your arse and legs very nicely.

Commute is short - only 50km round trip.

I agree that getting a small bike to commute and saving the MV is a great idea but........ if Ive got one I want to ride it.

Cheers
 

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Folks,

Thanks for the quick responses.

To answer a couple of questions, I'm in Sydney Australia so it gets hot. The 1198 seems similar to the MV getting very hot in traffic (105C+) which cooks your arse and legs very nicely.

Commute is short - only 50km round trip.

I agree that getting a small bike to commute and saving the MV is a great idea but........ if Ive got one I want to ride it.

Cheers
do it mate. get the muzzy fans and some wetter water. there are loads of threads on here about upgrades. 50k round trip will be a piece of piss. wont take you 15 mins, wont have time to even get your arse to rare, let alone well done.
 

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why not consider a 2010 f4?

They are really very friendly in slow traffic situations compared to the 1198, althought neither are designed for sitting at stop lights for a long time. Any sportbike will get hot if that is the case.

The 2010 model has a very similar feel to the 1198 in terms of riding position. The foot pegs are a bit higher, but that is easy to fix. The fueling is perfect and I think it handles better than my 1198 did. It is a heavier bike than the 1198, but honestly it doesn't feel like it. I have had no overheating problems at all.
 

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do it mate. get the muzzy fans and some wetter water. there are loads of threads on here about upgrades. 50k round trip will be a piece of piss. wont take you 15 mins, wont have time to even get your arse to rare, let alone well done.
Not to be picky:stickpoke but would that not equate to an average speed of 200 kph for the commute. :wtf: Not sure where you live but I doubt I could do that. :f4:

Jim
 

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Not to be picky:stickpoke but would that not equate to an average speed of 200 kph for the commute. :wtf: Not sure where you live but I doubt I could do that. :f4:

Jim
I think the 15 mins were referring to the installation of the Muzzy fans... :stickpoke
 

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Folks,

Thanks for the quick responses.

To answer a couple of questions, I'm in Sydney Australia so it gets hot. The 1198 seems similar to the MV getting very hot in traffic (105C+) which cooks your arse and legs very nicely.

Commute is short - only 50km round trip.

I agree that getting a small bike to commute and saving the MV is a great idea but........ if Ive got one I want to ride it.

Cheers
Sydney and the MV,

I have commuted my my F4 1000R on days where my usual ride is unavailable, it gets hot - anything less than about 60km/h will fail to cool the engine, I normally shut it down at traffic lights (this helps also).

My wife has a F41000S, it keeps its cool much better (when the two are ridden side by side in traffic) however I've never attempted to use this bike in peak hour traffic.

Your original question what are the differences:

1 + 1 is MV speak for Biposto (or two seats), all regular MV F4 models were available as either single or dual seats.

In very simplistic terms the sequence is as follows each is relative to its predecessor
1000S - 1000cc motor, pretty bike, goes like a cut cat - no real vices
1000R - No visual changes
- Majorly upgraded motor for more power (gets hot in traffic)
- Euro 3 compliant
- Lighter wheels, radial brake callipers, rear hugger as standard
- Revised screen for better wind protection
- Mesh fitted over body work outlet vents (probably aids the getting hot)
- Has recalls over cam chain tensioner and tends to split the radiator (OEM upgrades available to cure both issues).
1000R312 - No visual changes
- Revised cams and valves over 1000R motor gives more power (still gets hot in traffic)
- Top speed of 312km/h (thus the label)
- Callipers upgraded to Monoblocks at some point
1078RR - No visual changes
- 1078cc, so bigger motor (similar power output more torque)
- Upgraded water pump (getting hot not the same level of discussion - not sure if the problem is the same on this model).

Andrew...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
why not consider a 2010 f4?

They are really very friendly in slow traffic situations compared to the 1198, althought neither are designed for sitting at stop lights for a long time. Any sportbike will get hot if that is the case.

The 2010 model has a very similar feel to the 1198 in terms of riding position. The foot pegs are a bit higher, but that is easy to fix. The fueling is perfect and I think it handles better than my 1198 did. It is a heavier bike than the 1198, but honestly it doesn't feel like it. I have had no overheating problems at all.

Champagne tastes, beer budget - what can I say?
 

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Not to be picky:stickpoke but would that not equate to an average speed of 200 kph for the commute. :wtf: Not sure where you live but I doubt I could do that. :f4:

Jim
Jim - no unfortunately its not possible where i live either. His round trip, ie to Work and Back is 50k, 25k each way. It was the single trip of 25k that what i was refering to as taking 15 mins, his arse will have a chance to cool off whilst he is at work :)
 

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I commute on both a Ducati 999S and the F4. The Ducati is really easy to commute on, while the 312R is a handful :
- throttle response below 4500 rpm
- top-heavy weight distribution (not as nimble to turn)
- you sit on top of the MV, while you sit IN the Ducati
- can run hot quickly in stop and go traffic

The F4 really starts shining when you take it out of congested areas and you can open it up. All the weight dissapears and it feels like it's on rails.
 

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The F4 really starts shining when you take it out of congested areas and you can open it up. All the weight dissapears and it feels like it's on rails.
I think that sums up the F4 very well mate:)
 

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1198?

steventh;
if your 1198 doesn't run well under 3,000-3,500.....something is wrong,
all my bikes will pull cleanly in 6th from just above idle including the Brutale

sounds like you need the fuel map worked on and or the TBs sync'd.
when i bought my BMW 1150GS it wouldn't run under 50mph in 6th, a few minutes with a TwinMax synchronizer fixed that :yo::yo:

:f4::brutale:
 

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Steventh

All due respect but for a daily commuter you are looking at the wrong bikes. Neither the 1198 nor the F4 serve the purpose. In my opinion get a Japanese bike and maybe not even 1000cc (and keep the 1198 or swap with F4). If Italian bike you must have then it doesnt matter whether is the Duc or the MV for commuting.

I have both (1098 - 1078) and I enjoy them both but certainly not in traffic lights and city streets, Duc clutch is nightmare at 1-2nd gear and MV heat and heavy slow speed steering is unbearable. Ducati is a bit more comfortable with less agressive position and lower seat height. Its lighter too.

10W 60 is not so rare as you think not only MV now requests this kind of oil. I use Motul 7100 10W60 fully synthetic and very happy. Agip not so smooth imo. 20W 50 also good for MVs and plenty of threads to read on that. Unless you put the bike in a track and really rev it then all good quality oils even 20W 50 are good enough.

Gear box- yes the slipper clutch on my 1078 is not so smooth although with motul recently at last I do hit N easy. But dont think is GSXR or any Jap bike smooth. Its not (my bike anyway).

Ducatis have come a long way and improved their bikes a lot the last 10+ years. MV not so much (I have a 09 model and did experience issues same as owners of previous models did). New F4 they say its improved, no personal experience I am afraid. This does not mean you will have problems but with daily commuting you probably will.. If you have the patience to take care of it then fine. If not then dont buy it.

Just my opinion
P.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Folks,

Thanks for your input,

I thought the bike may not be running well and took it to a dealer and got the guy who services them (and who races 1198s) to ride it. He told me there was nothing wrong with it - its just the way they are. Given that the guy actually races them and did not gouge me for a "service" when he easily could have done I assume he was telling the truth. This is confirmed on the 1198 forums (solution apparently is disabling the O2 sensor and exhaust valve but as I may be selling it I dont want to do this).


PP , I agree with your points except Im not after a daily commuter - Im after a performance bike which can be ridden in the traffic without having to rev its head off to be comfortable. The 1198 is not an ideal commute bike but that doesn't necessary mean it has to be a pig in traffic. Being a big twin doesn't help (and a single pin crank at that) which is why I was looking at a 4. As I mentioned anything under 3000rpm and the Duc feels like its going to fall apart. This hasn't been the case with high performance 4s that I have owned.

I do my own maintenance so taking care of it is not a problem.

Cheers
 
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