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F4 Headlight relays

8K views 28 replies 7 participants last post by  silentservice703 
#1 ·
Anyone know the rating of the headlight relays for the F4?
CheersAdam
 
#3 ·
I know, but it's cold in the garage !
I was going to delay the HID coming on for enough time to start the bike. It's wired straight to the old bulb terminals ie the relay. Just wanted to make sure it would cope with the ballast start up current.
I'll have a look at the w/e
Cheers
Adam
 
#5 · (Edited)
I was going to make a small delay uinit from a pic or a 555. Then I found this site...

http://www.wolstentech.com/products/timedelayrelay/timedelayrelay.php

A very neat little unit and very cheap.

But why didn't I think of your idea first, much simpler...
Guess it depends on the access to the switch or starter relay wiring as they are on the opposite side of my hid wiring

Cheers
Adam
 
#6 ·
Adam,
we had a discussion on the Aprilia forum about the same thing, the startup draw of the ballasts

i just don't trust another electronic widget thats not sealed and has a bunch of adjustments......
a plain old relay is just more reliable....and certainly cheaper

Cheers

Noel-theknurl
 
#10 · (Edited)
Adam,
we had a discussion on the Aprilia forum about the same thing, the startup draw of the ballasts

i just don't trust another electronic widget thats not sealed and has a bunch of adjustments......
a plain old relay is just more reliable....and certainly cheaper

Cheers

Noel-theknurl
Well, just fitted the widget, very small and completely sealed. Fits nicely ontop of the air tube next to the horn and is hidden by the electrical cover.

The HID now comes on 20 secs after the ignition is switched on.
One snag though - using the main switches off the low which then won't come on again for 20 secs - guess I'll have to wire it different or get the low to stay on when the main is on !

I guess just a diode across the main beam switch input of the main beam relay to the low beam switch input of the low beam relay should get them both to stay on, but can the original wiring and main/high fuse (15A) cope with both of them together. They should only be (60W/12v) + (35W/12v) = 8A, maybe 12A if you had main beam on during the 1st 12 seconds !

I should have gon your route with the relay but now I am determined.

Cheers
Adam
 
#7 · (Edited)
I checked the headlamp relays and they have no detail on them to specify the rating - just the part and pin numbers.
The relay holder has a bocsh part number and is for a bosch 'micro' relay. These are rated at 15 to 25A so will be fine for the ballast which tops out at just 6.5A at startup dropping to a mere 3.4A after 12secs.

I'll see what the widget looks like when it turns up - I know its semi potted and uses a transistor to switch. There might be room under the right hand electrical cover next to the horn.
Looks like the connector block in the same area links to the starter switch as well.


Cheers
Adam
 
#28 ·
I checked the headlamp relays and they have no detail on them to specify the rating - just the part and pin numbers.
The relay holder has a bocsh part number and is for a bosch 'micro' relay. These are rated at 15 to 25A so will be fine for the ballast which tops out at just 6.5A at startup dropping to a mere 3.4A after 12secs.

I'll see what the widget looks like when it turns up - I know its semi potted and uses a transistor to switch. There might be room under the right hand electrical cover next to the horn.
Looks like the connector block in the same area links to the starter switch as well.


Cheers
Adam
where is the head light relay
 
#11 ·
personally i wouldn't fit a 30amp relay
don't get me wrong but if you end up pulling more than the original relay allows you could over load the wiring

if the wiring is capable of hanling 30a then yes fit a 30a relay if not stick with the standard relay

i'm about to get read yto fit a hid kit and also concearned about switching to high beam at night
if theres a 20s delay i'll be driving with no lights not a great idea
any one got any good ideas on how to over come this problem

cheers
 
#12 · (Edited)
personally i wouldn't fit a 30amp relay
don't get me wrong but if you end up pulling more than the original relay allows you could over load the wiring

if the wiring is capable of hanling 30a then yes fit a 30a relay if not stick with the standard relay

i'm about to get read yto fit a hid kit and also concearned about switching to high beam at night
if theres a 20s delay i'll be driving with no lights not a great idea
any one got any good ideas on how to over come this problem

cheers
First off, for the lights, there are 2 relays on the F4, 1 each for high and low beam and rated minimum 15A each. The low beam relay is on as soon as the ign is on, the high is on when the high beam is switched - this also switches off the low beam relay.

However the power from both the relays to the lights is from a single 15A fuse. You can have both high and low on by using the passing switch so I would guess the wiring should cope. The HID uses 3.5A vs 5A for the halogen.

I only fitted a HID kit to the low beam and also added a 20 sec delay so I could start the engine before the HID turned on.

As you say, on top of that 20 sec delay, it will take about 15 secs to fully light up the HID so switching between low - high - low is no good.

There are 2 ways I can see to keep the low on when switching on the high.

1. Fit a 3A rectifier diode between the switch input, W/R on the High relay and the switch input O/Bk of the Low relay

2. Fit a separate relay, main power from the SB/R of either High or Low relay and switched from the input, W/R on the High. The output can then be used to feed the input of the Low relay, O/Bk

Colours taken from 1000S diagram

I am going to try a diode in the week. A 1n5401 from Maplins, 23 pence, will be more than adequate.
This should work for a normal setup but I'll have to wait and see if my 20 sec delay box gets interupted or not.

PS, You will also need to change the side light bulbs to the led type as they look horrible against the white of the HID. I also changed the main bulb to a blue vision type.


Cheers
Adam
 
#13 ·
intersting let me kow how you get on please

only i'm not very good with bike electrics if something goes wrong trust me it will go wrong for me

i have heard people say you don't need the high beam once hids are fitted but it would be my luck that i'd switch lights while forgetting the hids and be in the darkness (no songs) and i don't eat cooked carrots so i'd be as blind as a bat
thanks
 
#14 ·
intersting let me kow how you get on please

Well I tried a diode across the 2 relays as I posted earlier and it works fine. Switch on the High beam and the Low beam stays on as well. It is separate wiring to each relay and a 15A fuse so everything should cope. However the amount of time I actually use the main beam is minimal - It's as you said, a safety thing so your not left in the dark at any time !

I suppose there is an easier way still - but i'm not sure what would happen to your parking light key setting - The low might stay on as well !. You could cut the +ve control wire to the low beam relay and join the relay side of the cut wire to the live feed in which is ign +ve. Then just tape up the other end of the cut wire. That way the relay is on all the time the ignition is on regardless of the state of the switch.

Either way it is fairly straight forward but if you are unsure I would get someone else to to it.

Where abouts are you ?

Cheers
Adam
 
#15 ·
cool thanks for the heads up

i'm near portsmouth

so i may well get the dioede and try it
did you take any photos if not
do yu fancy taking it all apart again and taking some so i can see what you done
thanks adam
 
#16 ·
cool thanks for the heads up

i'm near portsmouth

so i may well get the dioede and try it
did you take any photos if not
do yu fancy taking it all apart again and taking some so i can see what you done
thanks adam
To be honest there is not much to take a photo of. The two relays are together in a rubber holder under the left electric cover. Cut back the sleeving on both relay harneses so you can work on the cables inside. You can then either cut the coil wires or try and cut back about 15mm of sleeving.

I soldered wires to the diode and encased it in heat shrink, cut the wires and soldered it all back together with the diode. Finally tape the solder joint and the sleeving for the harness you cut ealier.

Just make sure you get the diode the right way around. The end with the black ring needs to go to the low beam relay coil.

Cheers
Adam
 
#17 ·
adam thanks for the heads up on the info

done it mate with the diode all sorted

just need to bin the yellow crap bulbs
ordered white led jobbies
now sourcing a 9005 white hahah
 
#18 ·
adam thanks for the heads up on the info

done it mate with the diode all sorted

just need to bin the yellow crap bulbs
ordered white led jobbies
now sourcing a 9005 white hahah
Good stuff !

The led sidelights fit, but they are a tad longer and seem like they could drop out. I applied a small amount of clear silicon to fix the base of the led to the reflector. If you put a small blob on the lower left of the left led and one on the lower right of the right led, you can't see it when you put the glass back on.

I got phillips blue vision 9005 from ebay, much better colour but still a slight yellow compared to the hid.


Adam
 
#19 ·
Ok, folks...resurrection time. I am actually going to do a dual H.I.D. setup on my F4.

1) Is there a "real" isssue with letting the H.I.D. fire up on engine start...or is it a perceived problem?
2) Has anyone actually tried it without wiring/relay modification?
3) Last question...for the moment...becasue I like things simple and restorable, why not simply actuate the "flash-to-pass" switch to activate (or maintain activated) the applcable ballast/igniter when switchng from high to low and vice-versa?
 
#20 ·
Ok, folks...resurrection time. I am actually going to do a dual H.I.D. setup on my F4.

1) Is there a "real" isssue with letting the H.I.D. fire up on engine start...or is it a perceived problem?
2) Has anyone actually tried it without wiring/relay modification?
3) Last question...for the moment...becasue I like things simple and restorable, why not simply actuate the "flash-to-pass" switch to activate (or maintain activated) the applcable ballast/igniter when switchng from high to low and vice-versa?
1)I guess there might me an issue with the life of the bulb / ballast but it won't break in the first week !
HID ballasts draw 8-9 amps for about the first 10 seconds vs 4.5A for a 55w bulb. This would be when your trying to start the bike.

2)It works fine without a relay, as the high and low beams already have their own individual relays that will cope with the start up current. Just wire it to the standard bulb harness.

3)It takes 10 - 15 secs to get to full brightness so you would have to hold the pass switch for that time...
The diode costs 10 cents and is just used to bridge to 2 pins. It can just as easily be removed.

Cheers
Adam
 
#21 ·
Thanks for the reply Adam.

I haven't gone back to re-read the entire thread, but I got the impression you cut into the harness and soldered the diode in. I was thinking of simply inserting it, as a bridge, directly from pin-to-pin between the relays. A friction fit.
 
#22 ·
Thanks for the reply Adam.

I haven't gone back to re-read the entire thread, but I got the impression you cut into the harness and soldered the diode in. I was thinking of simply inserting it, as a bridge, directly from pin-to-pin between the relays. A friction fit.
Yes, I soldered it in place via a couple of fly leads, just to be on the safe side. You don't have to cut the harness, just pull back the insulation.

A better way than a friction fit would be to solder the diode onto fly leads and use scotch locks.

Cheers
Adam
 
#24 · (Edited)
Adam can you confirm if a setup like this will work?

I carefully filed down the end of each prong on the 3A diode and friction fit it per SilentService's method above. Each prong is sitting securely wedged next to wire ends.

I haven't fired anything up yet because I don't want to blow the bike to the moon.

I'll shrink wrap it all and electrical tape it for backup. Good to go or am I at risk for catastrophic failure?

Thanks! - Seth
 

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#25 ·
Adam can you confirm if a setup like this will work?

I carefully filed down the end of each prong on the 3A diode and friction fit it per SilentService's method above. Each prong is sitting securely wedged next to wire ends.

I haven't fired anything up yet because I don't want to blow the bike to the moon.

I'll shrink wrap it all and electrical tape it for backup. Good to go or am I at risk for catastrophic failure?

Thanks! - Seth
The side of the diode with the bar on it, ie the side you have connected to the red/white wire needs to be connected to the low beam side, the other side to the high beam.
It depends on your year of bike but it looks ok.
If it is wrong, it would work the wrong way around, just switch it on and try :)

I soldered mine to the wires but if it is a good fit then I guess it's up to you....

Cheers
Adam
 
#27 ·
FWIW, I never did go the diode route. I simply installed two HID kits and use the flash-to-pass switch to preignite the highbeam. NO problems.
 
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