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Discussion Starter #1
don't know if this is the best place to post this, but i am curious of others riding style in the corners on mv. on my daytona, i HAD to lean off the bike in order to muscle it through the corners. on the mv, i tend to feel most comfortable not letting my knee fall out, but more or less i slide a little off the seat and moreso twist my body into the turn while still leaned over on the tank.

sounds confusing i know, but i was looking at gallery pics and see both styles. i see pete and others with the knee out looking like motoGP advertisment, but then i see others with their knee tucked in like me. on the set of vid clips i posted, my toe sliders were scraping a good bit so i know i could drag a knee. i tried leaning off the bike that day, but it just felt really awkward for me. maybe i just have to get used to it, but is it really the fastest way around the corner for EVERYBODY?

those other guys had poster perfect positioning, but i was creeping them around the corner. they told me they use their knee as a lean-o-meter, where as my nads that day are my meter. maybe i'm taking the mv's stability for granted?
 

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i wouldn't worry about it. i know PLENTY of fast guys who don't even get their pucks scuffed up. most important is how comfortable you are on the bike.

for what it's worth, i have noticed that my F4 likes a pretty good couter-steer input. if you push on that grip, the bike seems to really respond to that input well. some other bikes i've been on wanted more of a combination of body weight shift and counter steering input.
 

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Living the Dream
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i say you just lean that sucker over and not worry about your nads!! :stickpoke
 

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doesnt matter...too many other factors such as weighting the pegs , body against tank, arms, one cheek off, half a cheek off, etc.....
personally I like the knee down as a guage...easy reminder that your getting close and you can go faster. but that also depends on how you bend your ankle too....If I am not careful I tend to scrape the side of my boot, right on the hinge on my Sidi vertebres. Whatever is comfy.
 

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style_one said:
i see pete and others with the knee out looking like motoGP advertisment, but then i see others with their knee tucked in like me.
My whole riding postion revolves around looking good.............nothing else :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

In all seriousness, ride how you feel comfortable. The idea of hanging from the bike..is all about placing body weight where it's needed at the appropriate time, with the net result being able to carry more corner speed with less bike lean and less chance for the tires to let go....

That's why most do it.........I do it to look cool :eek:
 

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Velocemoto said:
My whole riding postion revolves around looking good.............nothing else :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

In all seriousness, ride how you feel comfortable. The idea of hanging from the bike..is all about placing body weight where it's needed at the appropriate time, with the net result being able to carry more corner speed with less bike lean and less chance for the tires to let go....

That's why most do it.........I do it to look cool :eek:
I admire your honesty Pete! :laughing: :eek:

I don't really hang off the bike on road riding but at the track I find it scary not to.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
well, i may try it on the bend in the video clip. i'm very comfortable on that corner and it's a big enough sweeper where i can practice. i guess i like to lean...always have even on 10spd bicycles. the powers never give me any indication of tire slip so i just keep on going. the boot scrape is the final frontier. sometimes it does catch me off guard though. that's why i have the steering dampner cranked up to max.

really though...i want to look cool too! i may just practice in the mirror on my daughter's tricycle. :king:
 

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fazer6 said:
That's an interesting debate...!

Not that I claim to be even a Rossi wanna bee, but I have watched Rossi going around turns after a MotoGP victory lap with his hands up in the air, and sometime standing on the pegs while turning the bike. I know my friends and I have always debated this issue. But I know I can turn without even touching the handle bars on a bicycle, as I often do while snacking or putting on a jacket...but haven't done it on a motorcycle...yet! :later:
 

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kamranmarashi said:
That's an interesting debate...!

Not that I claim to be even a Rossi wanna bee, but I have watched Rossi going around turns after a MotoGP victory lap with his hands up in the air, and sometime standing on the pegs while turning the bike. I know my friends and I have always debated this issue. But I know I can turn without even touching the handle bars on a bicycle, as I often do while snacking or putting on a jacket...but haven't done it on a motorcycle...yet! :later:
I think the reason is with a 16lbs road bicycle going @ relatively slow speed(15-30mph), and the riders being roughly 10X heavier(ratio of 1/10) it is very easy for us to affect bicycle's direction of travel, any weight shift on the bicycle will effectively cause the front end to counter steer promptly and easily... But on the MV F4 traveling much faster and 3X HEAVIER than the rider (ratio 30/10), it takes a lot more weight shift to cause it to counter steer without handle bar input... I have often "lean" my R6 to cause it to veer from its course(hands free) coming off a free way ramp to adjust my backpack or something, but it feels like forcing a reluctant cow to return to its barn, it works but requires a lot of effort... I should mention as the bike slows down it gets easier to cause it to veer off by "leaning".

I think the principal does not change, but with motorcycles being 30X heavier and traveling faster than the road bicycles is why they reacts differently to our wieght shifts.

There is a video of the NO BS BIKE in action @ the CSS site http://www.superbikeschool.com/multi-media/machinery-videos.php

now...what I think would be interesting experiment is to add a steering lock to immobilize the steering column of that NO BS bike and see if it turns at all? or it it would fall over once it is leaned over because it would just be leand over but not turn(no centrifugal force to keep it up)?
 

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Hi Style,

I think it's important you mentioned 750 in some way because the clip ons and rearsets make my body position on the 1000 work differently. The 1000 is a lot more upright already.

When I got the MV I too changed my preference. I used to keep my knees in but still hang body off and around the tank - BUT lean the bike WAAAAAY over. My edges were constantly scalloped from the corner of the tire trying to bite where there was no real contact patch.

It's a bit hard to see but notice the shiny line along the tire's edge. Funny to remember so far back to these old tires that came on the bike; Pirelli Dragon corse or something?



Friends convinced me it was too far, one with his gasps over the radio haha, so I looked at what I was doing with my body. It was clear leaning so far was really not doing anything for my midcorner speed or exits. I am not a fan of knee down on the street as the lean-o-meter but getting my body farther out and knee in the somewhat down but more forward let me keep the bike more upright. I think this gave me a better contact patch and better corner speed so a better exit.

I also run corners in 6th gear when I need motivation. Having the bike so far down in the rev range really helps when I need to work on bringing my corner speed back up. Nothing tells you you're too slow at exit like a bogging 750 throttle :) and nothing is a great motivator like keeping that bike in the rev range by the end of the corner. This works especially well on slower corners than your video, something sign marked 25mph or 35mph with true speeds above 75 or 80.

I agree with what you are saying on the MV's qualities. I think it does so many things well in this area that you have to search pretty hard to find an indicator of what's going wrong. Probably another good reason new riders shouldn't be using this bike to learn how to go faster. I think a bike a little bit more coarse is easier to understand at first.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
thanks for that input james. it makes sense. but in the end, i guess i have to do what feels right for me. another factor is rider size too. i'm not a big guy. actually i think our body sizes are probably similar. 5'11 165lbs. so i can manuever myself on the bike really easy like laying on the tank and twisting my body. like you, i do slide off the seat, with my knee going more forward than outward. i think us lanky guys have more options.

no doubt, consistent practice like at a REAL track would be best. hoping to get onboard video footage soon so i can see myself through that one corner. i can't imagine being able to go faster than that, but i'm not sure i would want to on the street :naughty:. this is why i asked the question. because i recognize that the MV is so much different than my daytona. i know my skill level hasn't increased that fast, it's the bike's stability covering up other areas where i can improve.

.net has helped me tremendously in learning. the throttle return spring mod has already improved my riding because i'm alot smoother in the corners. i'd love to do a track day with some of the vets up here to learn. ah well....to wish is nice.
 

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JamesC said:
I also run corners in 6th gear when I need motivation. Having the bike so far down in the rev range really helps when I need to work on bringing my corner speed back up. Nothing tells you you're too slow at exit like a bogging 750 throttle :) and nothing is a great motivator like keeping that bike in the rev range by the end of the corner. This works especially well on slower corners than your video, something sign marked 25mph or 35mph with true speeds above 75 or 80.
:eek: :eek: James, you lost me here, big time! 6th gear going into a corner? Could you please elaborate on this. I never go into a corner in anything higher than 3rd gear (most corners under 70 mph are in 2nd gear)...you need to keep the rpm high to keep the suspension nice and tight. In 6th gear, the rpm is so low and suspension so loose that it's border line dangerous...I've found the best handling rpm (for canyon riding) is 8,000~9,000 range in the corners...

If you watch the GP racers, they are in 1st gear in many corners (or 2nd at the most)...
 

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Kamran,
James is talking about being smooth ,staying off the brakes and keeping corner speed ,perfect line stuff.
There is a difference in using the throttle to balance the bike and the need to keep the rpm high . If your suspension is loose at low rpm get it adjusted as I don't think high rpm's will change the settings.
 

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macmivvi said:
Kamran,
James is talking about being smooth ,staying off the brakes and keeping corner speed ,perfect line stuff.
There is a difference in using the throttle to balance the bike and the need to keep the rpm high . If your suspension is loose at low rpm get it adjusted as I don't think high rpm's will change the settings.
well, may be a loose suspension is the wrong term... the bike feels tight/steady and in control. Trying to go around a corner at 1500 rpm just doesn't sound right/safe???

I guess I could use a little education about cornering in 6th gear...? Kind of interested to know the purpose....or am I missing the point here? :blah:

Edit: I'm not trying to be smart ass about it...may be the text comes across that way....I'm just a little puzzeled by this.
 

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I've done the 6th gear thing as well; Ask Odonata, it's like riding a 2-stroke, you have to be real smooth and keep corner speed as high as possible.
I don't do it all the time, but it's fun sometimes, and helps improve your line, as you can't depend on power to correct your mistakes.
 

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fazer6 said:
I've done the 6th gear thing as well; Ask Odonata, it's like riding a 2-stroke, you have to be real smooth and keep corner speed as high as possible.
I don't do it all the time, but it's fun sometimes, and helps improve your line, as you can't depend on power to correct your mistakes.
hmmmm? What kind of speed and/or rpm, and what kind of corners are we talking about? Are you talking about going 40 mph in 6th gear doing switch backs, or wide sweeping turns at 80/90+ mph in 6th gear?
 

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kamranmarashi said:
hmmmm? What kind of speed and/or rpm, and what kind of corners are we talking about? Are you talking about going 40 mph in 6th gear doing switch backs, or wide sweeping turns at 80/90+ mph in 6th gear?
A bit of both, really. Mostly switchback type stuff, trying to keep 'the pace'
 
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