MV Agusta Forum banner

1 - 20 of 66 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi, i am just contributing to the F4 750 forum.
I was suffering water/coolant in the exhaust for a number of months, and lately water was mixing with the oil.
So a week ago i started a leisurely bike/engine strip. After careful diagnosis by removing the exhaust manifolds, i discovered that water/coolant was escaping from the exhaust port on cylinder 3. So i removed the cylinder head to A/ check the head gasket and B/ skim and pressure test the head.
After reading some of the horror storys about camshaft bearing bridge and head nut removal, i was surprised at how easy it all came apart. Phew:yo:
The valves and seats were in great order and will be cleaned and re seated upon rebuild. Tomorrow i will lightly skim and clean up the head then over the next few days pressure test the head before repairing or renewing and then rebuilding again.
I posted my trying to locate a cylinder head gasket experience here...which was odd http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/showthread.php?t=180585
While the trellis was of i decided to change the color to red :) ( I noticed when i bought the bike 3 1/12 years back that under the black was a red frame...strange.)
Should be all back together and running by next weekend:f4:
As a side note, stripping the head i can see were ferrari had input designing aspects of the engine, it reminds me of when we rebuilt the F355 engine.
Thanks for reading. Brando
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Just for a comparison, heres a few pictures of both the F4 & Ferrari heads.
Looking at the radial valves on both the F4 and the F355 one can see the similarities.
Both bike and car heads were designed during the same years between 95-2000. I wonder if it was the same department/ designers. Brando
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,511 Posts
Hi Brando, how many miles on your 750? What was the motor running like before the gasket failure, any oil burn from valve stem seal wear?

What Generation of 750 is yours? Single rad, early twin rad or later? Hope the rebuild goes well and be doubly careful with the valve collets seating when you assemble, chck and double check.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Hi, 15k miles and was running perfect, was even running great while it was leaking water into the exhaust. Although it was harder to start from cold. Burning no noticeble oil.
Its a gen 1 ( i did originaly post this in the gen 1 section), and has two rads. Yeah its noted about the collets, they are tiny arnt they :) Brando
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Hi mate, the paint i chosen is the 2K 304 Rosso Corsa (Ferrari 308) color.
However i still have this that you can use mate, it was mixed last year and is the correct red for the F4.
If you want it shoot me an email with your address and i will post it to you, then you can just post it back. Brando
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,584 Posts
It's cool seeing the design similarities, thanks for taking the time to post that up Brando. I've always said the the F4 is like riding a Ferrari. :f4:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Hi, inlet and exhaust valves have had there build up taken of. Looking at the profile of the clean exhaust valve vs the exhaust valve still with the build up, this should now give far better head flow:naughty:
Trellis now built up with re greased bearings. Brando
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
It's cool seeing the design similarities, thanks for taking the time to post that up Brando. I've always said the the F4 is like riding a Ferrari. :f4:
Hi, thanks your welcome :yo:
It goes a little deeper still. Both the F355 and the F4 run the same value helper spring system (one spring inside the other).
The top two pictures arr the F4 twin springs, the bottom two are the Ferrari twin springs. Brando
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,426 Posts
Just for a comparison, heres a few pictures of both the F4 & Ferrari heads.
Looking at the radial valves on both the F4 and the F355 one can see the similarities.
Both bike and car heads were designed during the same years between 95-2000. I wonder if it was the same department/ designers. Brando
andrea goggi worked for ferrari and design work on engine for MV and now moved to ducati
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,500 Posts
?????

Just for a comparison, heres a few pictures of both the F4 & Ferrari heads.
Looking at the radial valves on both the F4 and the F355 one can see the similarities.
Both bike and car heads were designed during the same years between 95-2000. I wonder if it was the same department/ designers. Brando
Hi, thanks your welcome :yo:
It goes a little deeper still. Both the F355 and the F4 run the same value helper spring system (one spring inside the other).
The top two pictures arr the F4 twin springs, the bottom two are the Ferrari twin springs. Brando
Brando;
Where do you dream this up?????

Alike?

F355

1. 5 valves not sure they're radial, intakes have variable timing and middle opens 10deg before the others

2. Open combustion chamber.....see the shadow on the left side?

3. 5 cam bearings outside the groups of valves

4. End cam drive

5. All studs in head

6. Asymmetrical water passages

7. External water feed to head

F4

1. 4 radial valves

2. Closed combustion chamber, see the squish areas on both sides?

3. 4 cam bearings between the pairs of lobes

4. Center cam drive

5. Only bolts used in head

6. Symmetrical water passages

7. Internal water feed


Not very much alike are they?:stickpoke

Valve springs the same?????..

Really?????

What motor doesn't run double springs????

The ones that use triple springs :stickpoke
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Why are you being a twat? What have i done wrong?
Being that the engine was designed by ferrari and the heads i was showing is from our car, i am just showing the two heads side by side, i have not seen that before on here.
Both heads were made within the same decade. I have not posted nothing wrong, whats your problem? FYI the three intake valves on the 355 are radial valves, and studs are used in both heads. So were did you dream your info from? You telling every one your f4 runs bolts? Brando
I have deleted the pictures , happy?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Brando;
Where do you dream this up?????

Alike?

F355

1. 5 valves not sure they're radial, intakes have variable timing and middle opens 10deg before the others

2. Open combustion chamber.....see the shadow on the left side?

3. 5 cam bearings outside the groups of valves

4. End cam drive

5. All studs in head

6. Asymmetrical water passages

7. External water feed to head

F4

1. 4 radial valves

2. Closed combustion chamber, see the squish areas on both sides?

3. 4 cam bearings between the pairs of lobes

4. Center cam drive

5. Only bolts used in head

6. Symmetrical water passages

7. Internal water feed


Not very much alike are they?:stickpoke

Valve springs the same?????..

Really?????

What motor doesn't run double springs????

The ones that use triple springs :stickpoke
Why are you being like this? What have i done wrong? And at what point did i use the word alike? I said similarities.
Being that the engine was designed by ferrari and the heads i was showing is from our car after we rebuilt the engine last year. I was just showing the similaties of the two heads side by side, i have not seen that before on here, have you? Has anyone else done such a first hand comparison from there own engines on the forum? I looked amd could not find any.
Both heads were made within the same decade by ferrari, whats the problem? I have not posted nothing wrong.
FYI
1/ the three intake valves on the 355 are radial valves.
2/ studs are used in BOTH heads to secure them to the block/barrels
.You telling every one your f4 uses bolts to hold down the heads?
And i said that both heads run the same double spring helper system, whats not true about that? In 1994-5 the 355 first used the double system after the 348s , being that the f4 head was allegedly designed by ferrari in the late 90s, is it unfair to say that the were copying there new technology?
I would say that if two items were designed by the same man/ company, there will always be simular signatures in the design, look at the Ducati 916 and then look at the 2001 F4. Not the same bike but both have clear signaturesof who designed them, thats all i was suggesting.
The numbered list you posted was a waste of time because i said one could see similarities, i did not say both heads were the same now did i? If i had then i would have two F4s and two F355s.
Brando
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I had deleted the pictures that offend knurl. However after thinking about it, here are the F4 and F355 head and valve spring pictures.
Like i said i am just showing similarities of both heads made in the same era, by ferrari. Dont mean to offend anyone. Brando
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
22,332 Posts
Thanks for putting the pictures back up Brando. I was dissapointed when I couldn't see them.
I think most everyone here is interested in the similarities between Ferrari and MV as there have been long standing discussions and rumors.

It sounds like you have had, or still have, involvement with Ferrari engine design. Could you tell us more?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
It sounds like you have had, or still have, involvement with Ferrari engine design. Could you tell us more?
Hi, no i have nothing to do with ferrari design, i am sorry if you think i came across that way.
Our family is fortunate to own MVs and ferraris. We rebuild our own engines (my dad is very knowledgeable and thats were i got inspiration from)and i just thought that while i was stripping the F4 i would post pictures of both of our engine heads.
I am now a qualified engineer with 4 years of precision engineering college and currently two years at uni to gain my degree. The engineering company i work for has sent me to uni a few days a week to gain my degree in electrical engineering.
Plus i have my own workshop filled with CNC mills, lathes and 3D printers.
So i am not aftaid of getting stuck in, i love engineering and always willing to learn from any one who is experienced.
I joined the forum 3-4 years ago at 18 and am now almost 22. Brando
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
19,833 Posts
Brando,
Thanks for posting your observations and photos.
The Knurl is a self professed Curmudgeon who takes pleasure in posts such as the one he made here.
Just let it go.
 
1 - 20 of 66 Posts
Top