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Discussion Starter #1
http://youtu.be/V_VhUYakVqk

Anyone else feel that it was a good comparison but not totally fair? That the F3 should be compared with a 675 and not an R with all the trick bits? Perhaps when the F3RR is out then a 675R comparo would make sense.
 

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I agree! But then somebody defended the comparison saying the bikes are along the same price line so therefore the comparison is just...IMO- they aren't comparing PRICES, they are comparing BIKES. So along those lines, maybe a Serie ORO-675R comparison would be more sufficient!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
the F3 and the 675R are both - exactly the same price, or at least they are the exact same price in my local dearer who supplies both.


with that in mind, I would say it was reasonable to compare both, to determine which may or may not be the better buy. If you can also get an ORO-675R for the same price then bring that into the equation also.
Reasonable but not entirely fair and I am glad the reviewers do acknowledge that at the end of the review that it's a new bike and it will have it's fair share of teething troubles. Throw some top spec Brembos and Ohlins on there and I am sure the F3 will be almighty impressive. Lose the electronics get the fueling sorted. That would be my wishlist for the RR.
 

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Just some background info as we are the shop who supplies all the bikes to the magazines.

I personally put 135 miles on the bike before it went to Motorcyclist Magazine to get dyno tested. With more break in time I am sure the dyno numbers would improve.
I did not ride it on the track but did a fairly agressive street ride and had no problems with the quickshifter whatsoever.

The F3 definitely has more of a race bike feel than the Daytona and it likes to be reved. t is more like a I-4 in engine characteristics.

They tested the bike at Buttonwillow Raceway. A bad track to showcase the strong points of the F3. The F3 awards smooth, high momentum riding with high cornerspeeds. The pavement at Buttonwillow is SO bad that one cannot carry the cornerspeed you'd like - even on a big 1000. I have ridden Buttonwillow many times and I do enjoy the layout a lot, but I stopped going there about 2 or so years ago because the horrendous condition of the pavement. You simply cannot ride a motorcycle as fast as you'd like bcause all the apexes are torn up and the abundant pot holes, patches and tar snakes.

The bad condition of the track would interfere with the TC, i.e. the TC is reducing power constantly. So it makes sense that they turned faster laps with the TC off.

The torquier Daytona has an advantage on this poor tarmac because it can torque off the corners without needing to carry corner speed.

I am willing to bet money that the result would be different if they tested at a track like Thunderhill, Road Atlanta, or even Barber.

I set the suspension exactly like the fastest journos liked it at the press launch at New Jersey Motorsports. Tom Montano (ex Pro Thunder champion) from Cycle News and Bradley Adams from SportRider Mag. are both more accomplished riders than Ari Henning and Zach Courts from Motorcyclist Mag.
Also they told me that they would test at California Speedway and never mentioned Buttonwillow. These two tracks require substantially different set-ups for obvious reasons.

I dont know why mags still do 1/4 mile runs. They are meaningless for a sportbike which is designed to go fast around a real race track.

Ari Henning has difficulties adopting to different bikes. Once he finds a bike he likes, he wants every other bike to feel like that one. A good rider finds the strengths of each bike and adopts to that rather than concentrate on the weaknesses.

I do agree that the F3 needs a steering damper.

After riding the press bike at California Speedway, two AMA racers contacted us and inquired about racing the F3. They were over the moon about the performance of this bone stock F3.

Being directly involved with the magazine testing this year was a huge eye opener for me!
All I can say is be very critical of magazine tests. There is a lot going on behind the scenes that the reader of the test does not know!!
 

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Thanks for that information Balz.

Hey, if they are comparing with a price bias, why not put either bike (or both) up against a used 1000 cc bike built about 3 or 4 years ago?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Just some background info as we are the shop who supplies all the bikes to the magazines.

I personally put 135 miles on the bike before it went to Motorcyclist Magazine to get dyno tested. With more break in time I am sure the dyno numbers would improve.
I did not ride it on the track but did a fairly agressive street ride and had no problems with the quickshifter whatsoever.

The F3 definitely has more of a race bike feel than the Daytona and it likes to be reved. t is more like a I-4 in engine characteristics.

They tested the bike at Buttonwillow Raceway. A bad track to showcase the strong points of the F3. The F3 awards smooth, high momentum riding with high cornerspeeds. The pavement at Buttonwillow is SO bad that one cannot carry the cornerspeed you'd like - even on a big 1000. I have ridden Buttonwillow many times and I do enjoy the layout a lot, but I stopped going there about 2 or so years ago because the horrendous condition of the pavement. You simply cannot ride a motorcycle as fast as you'd like bcause all the apexes are torn up and the abundant pot holes, patches and tar snakes.

The bad condition of the track would interfere with the TC, i.e. the TC is reducing power constantly. So it makes sense that they turned faster laps with the TC off.

The torquier Daytona has an advantage on this poor tarmac because it can torque off the corners without needing to carry corner speed.

I am willing to bet money that the result would be different if they tested at a track like Thunderhill, Road Atlanta, or even Barber.

I set the suspension exactly like the fastest journos liked it at the press launch at New Jersey Motorsports. Tom Montano (ex Pro Thunder champion) from Cycle News and Bradley Adams from SportRider Mag. are both more accomplished riders than Ari Henning and Zach Courts from Motorcyclist Mag.
Also they told me that they would test at California Speedway and never mentioned Buttonwillow. These two tracks require substantially different set-ups for obvious reasons.

I dont know why mags still do 1/4 mile runs. They are meaningless for a sportbike which is designed to go fast around a real race track.

Ari Henning has difficulties adopting to different bikes. Once he finds a bike he likes, he wants every other bike to feel like that one. A good rider finds the strengths of each bike and adopts to that rather than concentrate on the weaknesses.

I do agree that the F3 needs a steering damper.

After riding the press bike at California Speedway, two AMA racers contacted us and inquired about racing the F3. They were over the moon about the performance of this bone stock F3.

Being directly involved with the magazine testing this year was a huge eye opener for me!
All I can say is be very critical of magazine tests. There is a lot going on behind the scenes that the reader of the test does not know!!
Wow thanks for injecting your insight in to this thread because it makes a whole lot of difference! Awesome post!!

Thanks for that information Balz.

Hey, if they are comparing with a price bias, why not put either bike (or both) up against a used 1000 cc bike built about 3 or 4 years ago?
LOL well said.
 

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The F3 comparison to the 675R is fair, as both cost about the same and are targeted to the same buyers. Each of us has their own purchase criteria, so what any magazine says is just their opinion, no more, no less. For me, the look of the F3 is so far beyond the 675R execution; it's not that the 675R is bad, but the F3 is just so good. My new F3 should arrive in the next few weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The F3 comparison to the 675R is fair, as both cost about the same and are targeted to the same buyers. Each of us has their own purchase criteria, so what any magazine says is just their opinion, no more, no less. For me, the look of the F3 is so far beyond the 675R execution; it's not that the 675R is bad, but the F3 is just so good. My new F3 should arrive in the next few weeks.
Its not a matter of purchase criteria. All I am saying is if the F3 had top spec brembos and ohlins wonder if their list of things they dont like would have ebeen there at all or not. Of course everyone's purchase criteria will be different. I really like the Daytona but I like the F3 better just for it's noise and looks alone.
 

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It's all about individual purchase criteria; otherwise we would all buy whatever the magazines were fond of this month. Even though I'm an MV fan (My F3 is coming), I would never suggest they compare an Oro to a 675R, not at the $27k selling price. That's ridiculous for the Oro content, in my view.

What the F3 offers that the 675R does not is a new platform to start with, one that has more potential in the long run. As you've already seen, the 675R is a more complete package right now, but not once I (and many others, I'm sure) begin modifying the F3. Plus, as you said, the F3 is flat-out better looking, which is really hard to fix if it is wrong (which includes all Japanese sport bikes, in my book).
 

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Not to sound a bit bias towards the Triumph but...

I had both bikes and I can honestly say that the Trumpet is definately ALOT more refined and comfortable. Midrange torque is definately better, and the throttle response are almost telepathic, and alot less delayed or "artificial" (it is fly by wire).

I traded in the Trumpet for the MV solely on it's awesome unique looks, had some interested specs (counter rotation crank, short wheelbase, long single sided swing arm), and it's a rare Italian sport bike that I can afford. The write ups and promises from MV are also very attractive.

After a day of riding it, I had reservations about the MV just because it's just a very different beast. A finicky, not so comfy beast that is! After two weeks and a bunch of high speed on/off ramps with this thing, I can honestly say I'm in absolute love with it. The power, noise, looks, and handling...it moves me! All the little quirks are quickly forgiven. I even like how the motor gets really angry when it's WOT near 10,000RPMs. I think it's because it's got more character than the Triumph. That and I feel that it's got more fun factor.

Bottom line buy what you like, and you definately cannot go wrong with either bikes.:)
 

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They Said What???????

Just some background info as we are the shop who supplies all the bikes to the magazines.

I personally put 135 miles on the bike before it went to Motorcyclist Magazine to get dyno tested. With more break in time I am sure the dyno numbers would improve.
I did not ride it on the track but did a fairly agressive street ride and had no problems with the quickshifter whatsoever.

The F3 definitely has more of a race bike feel than the Daytona and it likes to be reved. t is more like a I-4 in engine characteristics.

They tested the bike at Buttonwillow Raceway. A bad track to showcase the strong points of the F3. The F3 awards smooth, high momentum riding with high cornerspeeds. The pavement at Buttonwillow is SO bad that one cannot carry the cornerspeed you'd like - even on a big 1000. I have ridden Buttonwillow many times and I do enjoy the layout a lot, but I stopped going there about 2 or so years ago because the horrendous condition of the pavement. You simply cannot ride a motorcycle as fast as you'd like bcause all the apexes are torn up and the abundant pot holes, patches and tar snakes.

The bad condition of the track would interfere with the TC, i.e. the TC is reducing power constantly. So it makes sense that they turned faster laps with the TC off.

The torquier Daytona has an advantage on this poor tarmac because it can torque off the corners without needing to carry corner speed.

I am willing to bet money that the result would be different if they tested at a track like Thunderhill, Road Atlanta, or even Barber.

I set the suspension exactly like the fastest journos liked it at the press launch at New Jersey Motorsports. Tom Montano (ex Pro Thunder champion) from Cycle News and Bradley Adams from SportRider Mag. are both more accomplished riders than Ari Henning and Zach Courts from Motorcyclist Mag.
Also they told me that they would test at California Speedway and never mentioned Buttonwillow. These two tracks require substantially different set-ups for obvious reasons.

I dont know why mags still do 1/4 mile runs. They are meaningless for a sportbike which is designed to go fast around a real race track.

Ari Henning has difficulties adopting to different bikes. Once he finds a bike he likes, he wants every other bike to feel like that one. A good rider finds the strengths of each bike and adopts to that rather than concentrate on the weaknesses.

I do agree that the F3 needs a steering damper.

After riding the press bike at California Speedway, two AMA racers contacted us and inquired about racing the F3. They were over the moon about the performance of this bone stock F3.

Being directly involved with the magazine testing this year was a huge eye opener for me!
All I can say is be very critical of magazine tests. There is a lot going on behind the scenes that the reader of the test does not know!!
Careful Balz - there's way too much sound logic and accurate information in your post. They'll come lookin' for ya!

Anyhow that's read any of my posts on magazine reviews would know my viewpoint.

Great post - the odd dose of reality never hurt anyone..................too badly that is ;)
 

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I had a T675 for 3 years. Did 67,000km on it. Numerous track days, commuted some and toured it regularly. Loved it but the looks are dated, maybe the T675 2013 will be a stunner.

However, I bought the F3 two days ago simply because I fell in love with it. Not had a chance to actually make an opinion on it's ride and performance yet, but I don't care..I love it.

Yes the T675 had beautiful throttle response and fantastic power delivery from as low as idle. I've only done 200km at sub 6,000 revs on the MV and it's not as good low down and the MV does seem to have a lag in response. But I love it.

I also can't wait to finish the run in so I can sample the real MV power rush. I know it's there, I can sense it waiting to excite me. The T675 had no surprise rush.
 

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I disagree, prefer the looks of the T675R over the F3

But if you want a real good looking bike, better looking than both the above its simple; buy a F4.

Here is a quote from Thiumph675.net forum which hits the nail on the head, whats your comments:
Originally Posted by GT_Hawk
looking forward to some more detailed reviews. but triumph got to upgrade as the F3 will be refined over time....
I wouldn't be too scared of MV just yet - they have to prove they can stay in business, produce enough units to matter, and supply dealerships with product to sell. And we think Triumph parts aren't plentiful? Try getting MV parts for this baby!

Their 675 will be the most expensive in that 600 class - making it an even harder sell to Joe Public


Going back to page 1, you have to remember MV Agusta initially modelled to bike to compete with the triumph 675 and had one of the bikes for a few years when testing was ongoing

compairing both, I would have the 2012 Triumph 675R, it will be intersting to here reports on the 2013 Triumph, but all in all the F4 wins the show:naughty:


choose one or the other until you inspire the admiration and respect of the F4, then buy the F4


Doesn't seem like there having a hard time selling the f3. There going like hot cakes over this way. Dealers can't get them quick enough. As for the admiration of an f4.....this is an MV forum everyone here loves the f4. Not everyone can drop 20 grand on a bike so the f3 gets the win to some of us. Besides I would rather ride a slower bike fast than a fast bike slow. In the mountains where the corners are tight and straights from corner to corner are almost neal the f4 with god himself on it has nothing for the f3. Nothing!
 

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Doesn't seem like there having a hard time selling the f3. There going like hot cakes over this way. Dealers can't get them quick enough. As for the admiration of an f4.....this is an MV forum everyone here loves the f4. Not everyone can drop 20 grand on a bike so the f3 gets the win to some of us. Besides I would rather ride a slower bike fast than a fast bike slow. In the mountains where the corners are tight and straights from corner to corner are almost neal the f4 with god himself on it has nothing for the f3. Nothing!
I have to agree with you - I am blessed to have a twisty mountain run a mere 3klms from my house yet I live in the city. If I had to do a timed run up there which my life depended on - when I look in my garage at the bikes, the F3 would get the nod over the F4 without hesitation.

Some of the pics in my 'review' thread were taken up there & I swear the F3 was smiling at the camera with me on board as a passenger!
 

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MVista, I swear this lil jewel has been iceing on the cake for me. Can't say enough great things about the bike. All I can do is laugh at some of the comments these testers make. In my book there expectations are or were unrealistic or they just didn't receive a wed bike like mine. Maybe they got a fri at 5pm bike. Lol
 

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Btw, just so no one gets the wrong idea, I do like the Triumph 675 a lot. It is a fabulous motorcycle and it be my first choice for a middle weight if it weren't for the F3.

Also, I find it perfectly appropriate to test the Daytona 675R against the F3.
My point is that the F3 is a sharper, harder edged, more racey feeling bike made to carve up apexes. At the crappy track they tested, that is not possible and that is why the softer, fluffier, less responsive Triumph had the upper hand.

Motociclismo's result where very different when they tested the F3 against the other middle weights at a "real" track in Monza.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I was not aware that track had such a horrible surface. It definitely makes more sense once you take the track surface in to account.
 
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