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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok, so I've read tons of threads (mostly old ones) on this forum regarding F3 throttle response in low RPM's. Most of the threads end up with one of the following conclusions:
1. Jerkiness is solved in newer models and maps.
2. Custom map settings have solved it.
3. "Relax your upper body"


Now I don't completely agree on this...


I have a 2018 F3 800 RC with the RC ECU and map (tuned for race decat exhaust system) and SC-Project exhaust. EDIT: Not decated. My mistake.


The bike simply cannot deal with varying low speeds below 60km/h, especially on uneven surfaces (speed bumps etc.). It is especially jerky going from 0 throttle to throttle engaged. This even applies to relatively high speeds. This is mitigated by feathering the clutch a lot.


1. It is implied by my bike model and ECU map which was downloaded recently at the dealers that the bike is almost as new as it can get. Model year or map version is out of the question.
2. Setting "Throttle Response" to Rain mitigates some of the pains, but only slightly, and is in my eyes an unacceptable solution as it makes the bike so much more "lame". Sport throttle response is completely useless. I have of course fiddled with all the other custom map settings without any particular luck.
3. In the beginning I was convinced that the relaxing of the upper body and gripping with legs would sort this out, but it does not. I can be as loose and relaxed as possible, but I am still unable to cruise through low speed zones without sounding like an absolute idiot on the jerky throttle as soon as the bike needs to change speed because of traffic or uneven surfaces.


Of course you kinda get used to it in the long run but as soon as you try another bike that wasn't neglected in the EFI R&D department, you realize how bad it actually is.


So the question is: Has anyone ACTUALLY solved the issues of jerky throttle on this bike? I am not talking about mitigating workarounds like rain modes or brand-pride :)P).
I am interested in hearing the experiences of those who run completely custom maps with PCV units etc and or other modifications made to the bike. I would imagine sprocket gearing also may affect the response in some way.


I really really love my F3, but this part is mindblowingbly annoying for such an expensive bike.
 

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This is a common complaint for all ride-by-wire bikes....Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki included.
True for a lot of hyper bikes that aren't ride-by-wire too.
Almost impossible to get a smooth near idle throttle and still have a performance bike.

It's all in the right wrist. Let's face it, the bike does not want to go slow.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I am fully aware, but even so... Get on any other expensive fast bike with ride-by-wire and they will instantly feel better than the F3s currently do (but not perfect of course).

My previous KTM Duke 690 (one BIG aggressive cylinder) also had it's jerkiness problems with the ride-by-wire, but after opening the exhaust, remapping, O2 mod* and gearing it was mostly mitigated and made much smoother than my current experience with the F3.

*O2 mod was a device that I believe tricked the bike to use the "open loop" mapping for the entire throttle walk, and not using the 20% first throttle opening in the so called "closed loop" made for enviromental purposes. Very poorly explained and probably technically incorrect. I wonder if the MVs have something similiar?
 

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Yeah, that does suck. I had the first model SuperDuke, and that thing was a beast to ride slow(round-a-bouts etc)It was just an on/off switch.
It was only an after market map and removing the ecu controlled butterflies and O2 sensor that fixed it (they had 2 sets of butterflies for each throttle body)

I've got the standard power Brutale and have always found it to be sweet in the low range (for a sport bike)

Maybe getting it properly mapped on a dyno is the answer.
 

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I run the race map on my 2018 Brutale 800RR. It is very smooth, absolutely no probs. Also in the serpentines in the Alps.


As far as I know the race map is for the OEM manifold WITH CAT IN and the SC Project can.
If you run this mapping with a race header with no cat it of course runs lean.


Had mine mapped for open airbox and it is perfect in throttle response.


One more idea:
check and clean the plugs of the throttle wire. I heard from one RC where the plugs had a problem. After cleaning and reinstalling the prob was solved.
 

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I agree with @cherche custom mapping is needed, my throttle response on the F4 is much better now and the same with the 3 cylinders. All the stock maps RC or not, are best approximations.
 

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If you use the ECU studio to map the ECU and dyno tune you can get great running and smooth throttle.

On my F3 to get the bottom response really smooth I had to richen the small opening, low rpm settings a little. Maybe others did not IDK? That seemed to work.

When using the Forward Racing/Reparto Corse Race ECU that I have, it is abrupt at low rpm, small throttle openings and the bike starts a bit harder too. Smooth as an electric motor once rpm starts to rise.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I run the race map on my 2018 Brutale 800RR. It is very smooth, absolutely no probs. Also in the serpentines in the Alps.


As far as I know the race map is for the OEM manifold WITH CAT IN and the SC Project can.
If you run this mapping with a race header with no cat it of course runs lean.


Had mine mapped for open airbox and it is perfect in throttle response.


One more idea:
check and clean the plugs of the throttle wire. I heard from one RC where the plugs had a problem. After cleaning and reinstalling the prob was solved.

As far as I know, the cat is in the huge triple exhaust outlet of the stock exhaust (which weighs a TON). Might be one in the manifold as well, which is original on mine (mine is RC specced, nothing more).
So yours was custom mapped, or MV mapped for open airbox? Airbox is not part of the RC map or accessories.
It sounds strange that cleaning plugs for the ride-by-wire would do anything. The signals are AFAIK digital. It gets through or it doesn't. But I'll look into it anyway, thanks!:)

It is reassuring that there are success-stories with running custom maps out there.
I am new to ECU Studio. Is there a "preferred guide" on the forum somewhere to start? Is there a special ECU needed, or is it made able to read existing settings and overwrite stock/RC ECU?
Edit: Found this: http://www.ecustudio.com/support/ECU Studio MV Agusta Quick Start Guide v1.pdf



Ducati23: Yep, that's my experience with the RC ECU as well. It is buttery smooth in mid to higher RPMs. I can only imagine how nice it would feel to have the same smoothness at the lower end as well.
 

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ECU studio will work on any of the eldor MV ECUs, so the stock MV or RC and you can use one from a 3 cylinder or a 4 cylinder they are all the same only the firmware (flash) changes

If you want the latest manual for ecustudio v4.1, I can always send it to you and I have a video of a flash etc.

Register on their support site and ask your questions.

Only 1 Cat on the F3 and F4, both in the headers just behind the O2 sensor. When you cut the CAT out did you remove the exhaust valve?
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
ECU studio will work on any of the eldor MV ECUs, so the stock MV or RC and you can use one from a 3 cylinder or a 4 cylinder they are all the same only the firmware (flash) changes

If you want the latest manual for ecustudio v4.1, I can always send it to you and I have a video of a flash etc.

Register on their support site and ask your questions.

Only 1 Cat on the F3 and F4, both in the headers just behind the O2 sensor. When you cut the CAT out did you remove the exhaust valve?

Ah, excellent, thank you for the clarification. I've found enough information on the web for now to understand it somewhat. Details can wait until I eventually get the kit myself. For this exact purpose of smoothening the low end, I can probably figure it out as long as I can start from the "baseline" of the current RC map. For further tuning, I'll probably leave it to some professional tuners to fiddle with.

If the cat is in the headers, then I have not removed it, and the exhaust valve is still present.

Makes me wonder why the stock exhaust end is so god damned heavy if there isn't even a cat in it.

See picture. That's all I've removed and replaced with the RC "slipon" SC-Project exhaust.
 

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Your cat is still in the manifold, I can say for sure (if you did not change it).
The exhaust does not carry a cat.
 

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You can see from these headers the cat is or was behind the weld line.

Stock is heavy as it's all steel and has the baffles etc in it, be lucky you don't have an F4 as that's one of the heaviest exhausts I've ever worked with.

Edit: when you remove the CAT it will run leaner, so flash a kit map and tune.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I see, thanks again, both!
Learning something new every day...

I'll have to wait a bit with purchasing ECUStudio, unless I can find a tuner nearby who has the MV kit and knowledge to help me fix the low-end which is all I want at this moment.
Removing the cat and maybe upgrading the airfilter may come further down the road, but I don't see myself needing it as the bikes performance is awesome as is now in the high revs.
 

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When i bought my 2015 F3 800, it was without a test ride or anything, but it had the most recent electronics update and an AFM exhaust installed. My initial response was this is the worst fueling bike i have EVER owned. Felt gutless as crap for a 800cc machine, poor throttle response, felt weak across the board powerwise. I seriously was highly disapponted with the bike.. aka it was a POS

So i decided to take the gamble and give it the attention i have given every other bike.. A proper exhaust (full Passerini system) proper air filter (mwr flat race filter) and tune (Ecu studios with blipper option). The bike was transformed!
Given the fueling below 3500rpm is still a bit soft and feels off, but otherwise responsive, and it responds how i would want it to.

My previous RSV4 was superior in every regard stock, and that much better with the race ecu, exhaust and AF.
My 1199S with rapidbike race unit, full termi system & AF is telepathic to my wrist

Dumping your cat with a proper header and a tune would really wake up your bike and also make even the biggest nit picker pretty damn happy ( i know i am).. Not cheap, especially on a bike that is so damn $ to start with. I need to get a video of it up, but still have a huge knife wound in my leg holding me back.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
That's great to hear, jdgun.
Maybe I'll save up enough money for going all in with the proper header and airfilter to give it a one-off tune instead of just trying to tune it as is with the cat in the header.
I would like to know if anyone have solved the jerkiness in low-RPMs by custom mapping and _not_ removing the cat or touched stock air-filter/intake.
 

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That's great to hear, jdgun.
Maybe I'll save up enough money for going all in with the proper header and airfilter to give it a one-off tune instead of just trying to tune it as is with the cat in the header.
I would like to know if anyone have solved the jerkiness in low-RPMs by custom mapping and _not_ removing the cat or touched stock air-filter/intake.
Sneaky, spend the money and get a complete header, Titanium if you can afford it, but Stainless is perfectly good. The stock header w/CAT not only weighs a lot, it retains so much heat it can in hot conditions melt the fairing or even make it catch fire. I've witnessed that first hand at PBIR when a F3 rider from Miami had his bike catch fire on track. The CAT melted the belly pan. You will not regret doing this change. :smile2:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yeah, I did some research today and will definitely aim for a "full package tune".
The MV corse titanium header is ridiculously expensive, but the one from Zard is not so bad. Even cheaper in steel, but not that big of a difference to not go for the Ti version.
https://shop.officineitalianezard.it/en/mv-agusta-f3-exhaust-zard-3/
I also got it confirmed from Zard today that the headers they provide comes with O2 sensor hole, which I guess is nice, so I wont have to leave the sensor hanging somewhere.

Having an extra set of stock headers manually decatted is also an option, as dansoarr has informed me.

I also got in contact with a professional tuner in my area who can help me dyno and tune it properly in ECUStudio, given that I obtain the software and kit myself as he does not use it primarily.

It's gonna cost to have it all done, but I am sure it will be worth it.
Welp, time to save money :)
 

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Euro 4 headers are crap. They have 35 mm pipes vs 40 mm on the Euro 3 version. 30% less flow area.


With a decatted manifold you will have a significant higher dB level. I do not know if you run your bike on the street and how your cops deal with noise emmissions in Norway.
In Germany it is terrible :frown2:
 
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