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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone watched the F1 Grand Prix of Malaysia ?
Vettel was faster than Webber and passed him in lap 46 of 56 after a frantic battle with his team mate which was limping around at a slower pace.
So who is to blaim here ?
Further Rosberg was begging Ross Brawn to let him pass Hamilton who was cruising around to safe fuel.
In both cases the slower drivers were egoistic enough to slow down their faster team mates. Risking even to knock the team mates out in order to stay ahead. For the teams was it from the sporting point equal who won the race. The points would have been exactly the same in the constructors championship.
Now Horner says that it was Vettels fault and Vettel even cries about what did he do and appologizes. For what? Being faster than Webber?Horners comment when cars run behind each other they risk their tyres, is just idiotic. So why is nobody asking Webber to let Vettel pass.
In my eyes is the Red Bull team full of it.
Anyone has another view on it ?
 

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I'm a Weber fan. But disregarding that, whoever is the fastest driver should win. I sure as hell would not want to sit behind someone if I knew I was faster and could win.

Team orders? Boring.

Let them race ffs!!!
 

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Both drivers were obeying team orders which are whoever is in front after the last pitstop crosses the line first. The news reports I saw said that Webber was driving in 'conservation' mode as instructed as the Red Bull cars had a good lead and the team didn't wish to jeopardise this. The differences is that Webber obeyed team orders and Vettel ignored them apologising post race (a cursory apology at that) for passing while Rosberg obeyed team orders and didn't pass Hamilton. Hamilton spoke to Rosberg after the race apologising for the situation which was not of his doing. Webber also made a post race comment along the lines that Vettel disobeyed team orders and, as usual, will get away with it inferring that Vettel is the favoured son which he is.

As for egos, Webber, Hamilton and Rosberg seem to keep theirs in check. The same can't be said for Vettel.

I'm not suggesting that the team orders were appropriate only that three of the drivers obeyed them and one didn't. The result may have been different if the team orders didn't apply. Webber raced maintaing his lead, Hamilton raced keeping in front of Rosberg, Vettel passed Webber taking both cars out of the race or at least taking Webber out and so on. Obviously all conjecture.
 

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Anyone watched the F1 Grand Prix of Malaysia ?
Vettel was faster than Webber and passed him in lap 46 of 56 after a frantic battle with his team mate which was limping around at a slower pace.
So who is to blaim here ?
Further Rosberg was begging Ross Brawn to let him pass Hamilton who was cruising around to safe fuel.
In both cases the slower drivers were egoistic enough to slow down their faster team mates. Risking even to knock the team mates out in order to stay ahead. For the teams was it from the sporting point equal who won the race. The points would have been exactly the same in the constructors championship.
Now Horner says that it was Vettels fault and Vettel even cries about what did he do and appologizes. For what? Being faster than Webber?Horners comment when cars run behind each other they risk their tyres, is just idiotic. So why is nobody asking Webber to let Vettel pass.
In my eyes is the Red Bull team full of it.
Anyone has another view on it ?
there are other factors to consider, if they end up racing with each other at full power to the finish, they might run low of fuel to finish the race within regs, or possibly run out their tires and risk being caught, or put unnecessary wear on the engines and gearboxes which they'd receive an penalty for changing in the next race. Why not just coast to an easy finish while you've already handily trounce the competition? Why not listen to your team who can see all the telemetry and knows things that you don't know? Because one driver is a brat? I totally understand why webber was annoyed, and between Seb's actions on track and his statements off track, I have never been a fan no matter how fast he is or how many races he wins.
 

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not to mention the risk of crashing into each other and having neither car finish
 

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Malaysia was a great race.....I enjoyed it almost as much as the NASCAR race in California.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
From what I gathered drove Webber with the harder prime tyre and Vettel with the softer option tires. Consequently he was faster and a racer as he is he is going for the win.
Hamilton was low on fuel and needed to drive conservatively to make it around to the finish line. Rosberg didn't need to safe his fuel so he could go full attack. Why wouldn't You go for the podium than ?
For what is Team order good if You risk at the end the drivers title.
What will Horner say if Vettel will loose the world championship by 6 points ?
To say that after the last pit stop You should not race and preserve the position is in no way sports like and pure liberal baloney.
It would be the same if Lorenzo with better preserved tires would trail behind Rossi with shot tires. This is something unthinkable in other sports. The better will win and so it should be.
As I said earlier, if You have some kind of a problem and see Your team mate is gaining on You, You would let Your team pass and go for it.
That doesn't need any team order. This is plain gentlemen like and something everyone of us would do.
And I'm here not a Vettel or Webber fan.
Yes sure Vettel is a German like me and I see him rather clinching the title than lets say Maldonado.
But this story shows the sickness of the entire F1 circus and especially of Red Bull Racing.
Vettel for being such a coward to apologize for being a racer.
Webber for being as arrogant to ignore the faster team mate and risk a crash.
And Horner for interfering at the outcome of a race at the begin of season.
Ignoring the facts and blame his driver to go for a win.
Which could cost him dearly at the end of the season.
If I would be Vettel I would say f... You Horner and Webber, I go for the title and next Year to Ferrari.
 

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F1 isn't like other sports, in bike racing there are no radios. As much as we watch and think that racing is about driver and machine, in F1 it is about strategy and teams of engineers. Those teams of engineers at Red Bull consistently supply the best machines on the grid and work hard to keep it that way. A driver is like a trained monkey, there are many more people capable of winning in a redbull car than there are redbull cars. To ignore the engineers and strategists behind pitwall is arrogant and selfish. Alonso did it, and it cost everyone at ferarri a potential podium. You risk the drivers AND the team championship if you risk having only one or neither car finish the race. They made a calculation based on a long term strategy and Seb ignored it based on his selfish immediate desire to win. I think Vettel should leave redbull after this year, but he'd be foolish to do so because it would highlight just how much of a factor the car is vs him as a driver. In my opinion he is maybe in the 5 top of current drivers, maybe.
 

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F1 isn't like other sports, in bike racing there are no radios. As much as we watch and think that racing is about driver and machine, in F1 it is about strategy and teams of engineers. Those teams of engineers at Red Bull consistently supply the best machines on the grid and work hard to keep it that way. A driver is like a trained monkey, there are many more people capable of winning in a redbull car than there are redbull cars. To ignore the engineers and strategists behind pitwall is arrogant and selfish. Alonso did it, and it cost everyone at ferarri a potential podium. You risk the drivers AND the team championship if you risk having only one or neither car finish the race. They made a calculation based on a long term strategy and Seb ignored it based on his selfish immediate desire to win. I think Vettel should leave redbull after this year, but he'd be foolish to do so because it would highlight just how much of a factor the car is vs him as a driver. In my opinion he is maybe in the 5 top of current drivers, maybe.


That is true I reckon Just look at last year. I am not a great fan of Alonso but he was in with a chance of winning the title to the very end in a far inferior car to the redbull

As for Malaysia each member of the team has a strategy for tyres and fuel at the start of the race. Rosbergs strategy was better than Hamiltons and he should have been allowed to pass and I see nothing wrong with Vettel passing. Its supposed to be a race ffs.
The trouble is the Manafacturers title is far more important than the drivers title

I used to like watching Champ car racing. The s**t that affects F1 didn't seem to happen in that series. It was exciting racing had to say I preferred the street circuits to the oval races though. Whats happened too it don't seem to get the TV coverage it did
 

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Both drivers were obeying team orders which are whoever is in front after the last pitstop crosses the line first. The news reports I saw said that Webber was driving in 'conservation' mode as instructed as the Red Bull cars had a good lead and the team didn't wish to jeopardise this. The differences is that Webber obeyed team orders and Vettel ignored them apologising post race (a cursory apology at that) for passing while Rosberg obeyed team orders and didn't pass Hamilton. Hamilton spoke to Rosberg after the race apologising for the situation which was not of his doing. Webber also made a post race comment along the lines that Vettel disobeyed team orders and, as usual, will get away with it inferring that Vettel is the favoured son which he is.

As for egos, Webber, Hamilton and Rosberg seem to keep theirs in check. The same can't be said for Vettel.

I'm not suggesting that the team orders were appropriate only that three of the drivers obeyed them and one didn't. The result may have been different if the team orders didn't apply. Webber raced maintaing his lead, Hamilton raced keeping in front of Rosberg, Vettel passed Webber taking both cars out of the race or at least taking Webber out and so on. Obviously all conjecture.
Absolutely bang on, while in the lead Webber had been told the race was over, cruise home. The race was his.

On the other hand, Hamilton seemed almost embarrassed on the podium after the race.
 

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From what I gathered drove Webber with the harder prime tyre and Vettel with the softer option tires. Consequently he was faster and a racer as he is he is going for the win.
Hamilton was low on fuel and needed to drive conservatively to make it around to the finish line. Rosberg didn't need to safe his fuel so he could go full attack. Why wouldn't You go for the podium than ?
For what is Team order good if You risk at the end the drivers title.
What will Horner say if Vettel will loose the world championship by 6 points ?
To say that after the last pit stop You should not race and preserve the position is in no way sports like and pure liberal baloney.
Am I missing something? What does being liberal have to do with it?
 

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Oh you guys are funny.

I say take the radio's away. One light in car to show them their pit is ready for tyres or fuel, that's all the need.
Team can discuss strategy before the race, or shout orders at them in pitlane, after that it should be driving as fast as you bloody can, to the end.
What a bunch of Princesses they have become.
 

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No I in Team?

If I would be Vettel I would say f... You Horner and Webber, I go for the title and next Year to Ferrari.
I am SURE Alonso would welcome him with open arms & I am sure Ferrari management would have a pleasant time with those two dickheads within their ranks. Think Senna/Prost and how brilliantly that worked in 1988 & 1989 with McLaren. :jsm:

Bottomline Ralf, regardless of whether team orders are correct or not (that's a whole different debate) if you are part of a team (like in society) you live by those rules.

If Vettel does not want to live by those rules - he should take his pampered ass out of "Red Bull Racing" & start up "Spoilt Brat Racing" and enter 1 car with himself as driver - simple.

Sir Jack Braham did it, he won a World title 1966 with Braham Racing Organisation - Come on Vettel, you don't need a team it's all about YOU - SO show us what you have - PUSSY!
 

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The flip side to all of this......and there is no doubting Vettel's talent, but Red Bull have held Webber back in the past to secure Vettel's world championships. Webber played his part, is it too much to expect Vettel to do the same? What if Webber misses out on the championship by 6 points this year?
 

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“I was only following orders” .. Where have I heard that before in the past ? .JOKE !

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It was a very controversial end to this weekends race, but nothing surprises me with F1 anymore.. It’s all about the money, marketing and keeping the sponsors happy.

I like Webber (he’s a big dog fan) and I suspect this will be his last year at Red Bull. I think he did enough at the weekend to win that race and when the order came from the pits to hold positions, that should have been it..

However, I do understand Vettels position, as in the good old days of F1 the likes of Senna, Mansell, Hunt The Shunt wouldn’t have listened to team orders regardless of which team they were racing for..

However, F1 is different nowadays and the word professional employee is used to describe the drivers and looking after number one is no longer looked at as being the right thing to do.

It seems the team manufacturers’ title has become more important than the drivers world title.

On a more positive note, have you seen the new BBC1 opening title sequence for the F1 program.. It's their best to date.

How cool is this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcXBOxq1KqE

.
 

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Both drivers were obeying team orders which are whoever is in front after the last pitstop crosses the line first. The news reports I saw said that Webber was driving in 'conservation' mode as instructed as the Red Bull cars had a good lead and the team didn't wish to jeopardise this. The differences is that Webber obeyed team orders and Vettel ignored them apologising post race (a cursory apology at that) for passing while Rosberg obeyed team orders and didn't pass Hamilton. Hamilton spoke to Rosberg after the race apologising for the situation which was not of his doing. Webber also made a post race comment along the lines that Vettel disobeyed team orders and, as usual, will get away with it inferring that Vettel is the favoured son which he is.

As for egos, Webber, Hamilton and Rosberg seem to keep theirs in check. The same can't be said for Vettel.

I'm not suggesting that the team orders were appropriate only that three of the drivers obeyed them and one didn't. The result may have been different if the team orders didn't apply. Webber raced maintaing his lead, Hamilton raced keeping in front of Rosberg, Vettel passed Webber taking both cars out of the race or at least taking Webber out and so on. Obviously all conjecture.
+1,000,000,000 There's no more to say...
 

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Lol.. I thought MotoGp was f'ed up but Jesus F1 makes MotoGp look good in this category, of political dynamics in a sport that used to carry men. Really sad. I hope it's not to late for Gp and that they can eventually pull their heads out of their asses before it get's this bad.:banghead:
 

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Will be interesting to see what happens in China next week...
 
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