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Discussion Starter #1
Many of you guys may have watched a recent live interview with the ceo of mv and the mvagusta motor instagram page. They were answering questions from the public for timur to answer and one question was when will we see the new f4 and what will it be

The new f4 is not coming out for another 5 years and will either be a fully electric bike or a hybrid! Yes you heard me.

So i would like to ask the whole mvagusta.net community what do you think of the most iconic bike in the world being hybrid or electric ? What do you think will happen to MVs image? Do you think they should leave f4 as a normal combustibale engine and make a seperate electric bike?

Everyone on the forum i ask you to all read this and give me your honest opinions because i dont know what would make them kill the f4

I will start off by saying that the F4 is the la ferrari of mv its the superbike the bike that we all can say is a mv its iconic and has been an icon for so many of us. I am actually devestated that it will be another 5 years before we see a F4. I actually cringe at the idea it maybe be electric i think they should have a separate electric bike and keep a full combustion engine in the F4.

Am i missing something here? I mean lets face it F4 sales are down cause mv never produced a good enough bike thats a fact and even myself who would buy every single F4 can say that. So for me the question of sales is a direct relation to the product it wasnt compariable to other bikes buy a long shot in my eyes it was left to die with no attention

So i ask all of the mvagusta.net community please write your comments below and lets me know what your thoughts are cause we are the consumer we need to be heard


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I rather like the idea of a hybrid....especially if it's used to make it go faster instead of environmental reasons (yes I know I may get flamed for that statement).

I think electric will be the future so like every business model it needs to adapt to current climate to survive - grassroots level example is the local pubs here in rural UK during the lockdown - they now do takeaway lunches / meals to keep afloat, as their industry will be the last to re-open here.

That's not to say I agree with electric vehicles (I've said for years nuclear power is best way to produce domestic energy as it yields so much from so little), but I obviously go against the grain. I don't have a solution to the problem of finite oil reserves and an exponentially expanding human population (well, I do but it's not accepted in an educated society), but something has to give and if that means MV make something other than an internal combustion engine to ride then so be it, I'd rather than than nothing at all.
 

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I also am saddened by this. I agree with your statement. The F4 is iconic and needs to stay that way. I would not be in the market for an electric F4. The F4 had a soul. Take that away and I would not be a buyer.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I also am saddened by this. I agree with your statement. The F4 is iconic and needs to stay that way. I would not be in the market for an electric F4. The F4 had a soul. Take that away and I would not be a buyer.
Andrew i feel the same way i have had this rather anxious feeling in my gut that the brand that i have so dear loved with a passion will just not be the same anymore


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Discussion Starter #5
I rather like the idea of a hybrid....especially if it's used to make it go faster instead of environmental reasons (yes I know I may get flamed for that statement).

I think electric will be the future so like every business model it needs to adapt to current climate to survive - grassroots level example is the local pubs here in rural UK during the lockdown - they now do takeaway lunches / meals to keep afloat, as their industry will be the last to re-open here.

That's not to say I agree with electric vehicles (I've said for years nuclear power is best way to produce domestic energy as it yields so much from so little), but I obviously go against the grain. I don't have a solution to the problem of finite oil reserves and an exponentially expanding human population (well, I do but it's not accepted in an educated society), but something has to give and if that means MV make something other than an internal combustion engine to ride then so be it, I'd rather than than nothing at all.
Yes I understand but electric like seriously you dont even hear a noise lol i


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Will Mv Agusta release an F3 950 soon and would that be enough to cover for the new F4 untill it's release. Re the F4 being electric if hybrid, if the planned release date is four years time there may be similar platforms released by other manufacturers to meet emission requirements.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Will Mv Agusta release an F3 950 soon and would that be enough to cover for the new F4 untill it's release. Re the F4 being electric if hybrid, if the planned release date is four years time there may be similar platforms released by other manufacturers to meet emission requirements.
I dont think a triple cylinder 950 with 180hp will be good enough to replace f4 we are talking about the superbike of the brand the pinnacle of the stable

Do you think ducati will replace the pannigale with an electric bike? Or hybrid even?

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Yes I understand but electric like seriously you dont even hear a noise lol i


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Said I don't agree with it, but yes they're insipid compared to a 'proper' engine. Part of the appeal of riding a bike (for me nowadays, it used to be only form of transportation 30 years ago) is the assault on the senses - sight, smell, feel and noise. But if it's that or nothing then I'll take that. Bear in kind we are the transition generation / century and have the luxury of comparison - to someone who only knows electric bikes and cars and has never heard an internal combustion engine, they may be the best thing since sliced bread.

If it was the other way round and electric came first, then just now Elon Musk brought out a combustion engine I bet we would all turn our noses up and criticise it.

For what it's worth, I have an electric MTB and it's a fantastic bit of kit, but I still get a lot of resistance from the analogue crowd....until they have a go on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Said I don't agree with it, but yes they're insipid compared to a 'proper' engine. Part of the appeal of riding a bike (for me nowadays, it used to be only form of transportation 30 years ago) is the assault on the senses - sight, smell, feel and noise. But if it's that or nothing then I'll take that. Bear in kind we are the transition generation / century and have the luxury of comparison - to someone who only knows electric bikes and cars and has never heard an internal combustion engine, they may be the best thing since sliced bread.

If it was the other way round and electric came first, then just now Elon Musk brought out a combustion engine I bet we would all turn our noses up and criticise it.

For what it's worth, I have an electric MTB and it's a fantastic bit of kit, but I still get a lot of resistance from the analogue crowd....until they have a go on it.
Ok I understand but why wouldnt you just build an electric bike and keep F4 on its own?


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Bombshell! (In a bad way)
I firmly believe we are the last generation to have vehicles with soul and passion combined with legendary heritage and history.
We are getting conned to believe that ethanol fuel is good, batteries are good and that the only future for the planet is to eat vegetables only so that we don’t fart and pollute the air. And by the way, speed kills, so they would mandate that we will get GPS equipped vehicles incapable of exceeding the speed limit.
Look for and watch the new Michael Moore you tube video that exposes a large part of the myth of renewable energy, and the big business hijack of this movement.

From what you are saying Sam, the new CEO wants to be the Tesla of the motorcycle world. As you say, he will be walking away from a very high percentage of the current MV customers, who will mostly be dead or dying in 20 years.
I suspect he is trying to attract the next generation, who generally have little to no desire to appreciate heritage and passion. Unless it does everything via an app, there is no interest.

One can only hope that the petrol producing countries and companies have some input, otherwise they will have nothing to sell.
 

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Sam, you know my views, the F4 is the Icon and flagship, 5 years without an icon or flagship model is a long time. Bringing out another Brutale or Dragster with yet another bit of carbon just does not cut it. At best these are short lived fashion models.

Every brand needs an Icon and the F4 is just that, it’s the difference between style and fashion.

For me the F4 needs an update, clearly in time the industry will move towards electric and hybrid technology, do I think MV can lead the way, I doubt it. You know I love the bikes and brand, but just look at what was done (pre Timor) spec says quickshifter and blipper on your bike sir, only to find out there was not one. The resources required to make a new electric and or Hyrid, are clearly large and I'm not personally convinced MV can do this and deliver all of the key requirements, Style (easy for MV), but Handling, Performance, Technology, as light as it can be and Robustness all at the same time, forgive me but I am sceptical.

Look at the current F4, they relaunched in 2010 and 2013 yet persistent issues with design and backup.

There are some generic issues with the F4 which affect the user experience, although we chalk them up to being a ‘characteristic’

Clutch – Every bike you own you have to get used to, the F4 clutch was appalling, snatchy and unpredictable at launch, and every-one knows that, why no fix. So many reviewers said it was a great bike but, you can’t launch it. You can’t claim this as a characteristic it's a design fault, and its left to individuals to solve the design issue and get it working. If you are worried about warranty (I'm not as i don't trust the MV dealership network in the UK) you have to live with it for 2 or 3 years before you can do anything about it.

Rear Brake - Everyone knows the rear brake is form over function, it really needs to be fixed so it does not boil in traffic, so many owners of MV's complain about this, they are just not reliable the fluid becomes hygroscopic and then the brake is useless. I fully appreciate that the lines look smooth with the current arrangement, but it needs to be addressed or at least offer an option to switch to a thumb brake, or race rearsets with the master cylinder on. Would you accept an Audi RS8 with a hand brake that might or might not work?

Ride Height – (ok an experience not a technical issue) The silly thing that made me mad. You pay 20k to 30k for a bike and you can’t even adjust the chain as you need to correct the ride height. Not a problem but tell people this before they purchase the bike and many will add it to the bill. I bought mine out right and I would have purchased one instantly at the time or taken measurements.

I wouldn’t buy my F4 until I knew I could be 100% independent of MV for servicing and maintenance, given the issues with the dealer network and the history. I might add this is the same for all bikes I own. A hybrid F4 would make me nervous of having a bike that develops a fault and no one can fix, and takes ages to get it fixed by the factory.

You know I will do anything for the brand or another MV owner, and I hope that the F4 is revived as a petrol model much quicker than 5 years and then transition / develop an F4h and or F4e as time, technology and quality permits.

A new Petrol F4, short term

Clearly a new F4 takes some time and the engine is the current issue, but it could be updated. Here MV must break the current cycle of a special basically being a few bolt on bits, wheels etc and different colour bodywork and calling it a limited edition.

Assuming the Euro5 regs can be complied with and maintain the power ( yes not easy), then my hit list would be: ( in no order)

  • Much more advanced electronics, slide control etc, if MV can’t do this for a known platform, an E bike is a bigger task
  • Built in GPS and logging to dash or phone (if phone must be android and iphone)
  • Bluetooth link to the Dash to say you have missed a call or got a text
  • Pit lane limiter
  • launch control
  • Engine heater
  • The trellis frame is part of the DNA and I would love to see it remain
  • Suspension, I would say ditch the Marzocchi /Sachs and Ohlins, and go quality and race inspired. K-tech or Mupo would be a bold and I think a clear differentiation, break from the crowd.
  • Seat unit and sub frame would be nice if it was a stressed Carbon structure.
  • Drop the tank for mass centralisation i.e like the WSB, clearly this needs a swing arm and link change but we know what to do.
  • Clutch, no launch issues
  • Exhaust, we need a light weight system, it weights far too much and, in my opinion, causes issues being so high up as mass. The same goes for headers, the current F4 headers are a little 1990’s an R1 or GSXR would be lighter
  • A bigger radiator, there is room, and it would help with the heat issues
  • Quick release number plate hanger
  • Some storage space, the current F4 has no storage space. With the ABS, I can’t even put my phone under the seat.
  • Every bike gets a carpet and a cover. I don’t care about the carpet, but many do.
  • Oh and a clock, please please add a clock to the display, I have got into so much trouble with my wife due to losing track of time
Like I say I love MV and especially the F4, but please don't leave us 5 years with no F4, and I am worried about the large technology step, given MV's track record of delivery and quality. This is not meant to be negative.
 

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Ok I understand but why wouldnt you just build an electric bike and keep F4 on its own?


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That's a great question - I just can't see any future in petrol combustion engines apart from being in a museum and parade events. Pressure and time can only produce fossil fuel at a certain rate, and the human population will outstrip it far, far faster than it can regenerate. Just look at how the worlds population has doubled since WW2 - but I digress.

I'm certain (or rather hope) that it will last for our lifetimes, but I think MV, like every other manufacturer, has to build electric into their range to avoid stalling.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Sam, you know my views, the F4 is the Icon and flagship, 5 years without an icon or flagship model is a long time. Bringing out another Brutale or Dragster with yet another bit of carbon just does not cut it. At best these are short lived fashion models.

Every brand needs an Icon and the F4 is just that, it’s the difference between style and fashion.

For me the F4 needs an update, clearly in time the industry will move towards electric and hybrid technology, do I think MV can lead the way, I doubt it. You know I love the bikes and brand, but just look at what was done (pre Timor) spec says quickshifter and blipper on your bike sir, only to find out there was not one. The resources required to make a new electric and or Hyrid, are clearly large and I'm not personally convinced MV can do this and deliver all of the key requirements, Style (easy for MV), but Handling, Performance, Technology, as light as it can be and Robustness all at the same time, forgive me but I am sceptical.

Look at the current F4, they relaunched in 2010 and 2013 yet persistent issues with design and backup.

There are some generic issues with the F4 which affect the user experience, although we chalk them up to being a ‘characteristic’

Clutch – Every bike you own you have to get used to, the F4 clutch was appalling, snatchy and unpredictable at launch, and every-one knows that, why no fix. So many reviewers said it was a great bike but, you can’t launch it. You can’t claim this as a characteristic it's a design fault, and its left to individuals to solve the design issue and get it working. If you are worried about warranty (I'm not as i don't trust the MV dealership network in the UK) you have to live with it for 2 or 3 years before you can do anything about it.

Rear Brake - Everyone knows the rear brake is form over function, it really needs to be fixed so it does not boil in traffic, so many owners of MV's complain about this, they are just not reliable the fluid becomes hygroscopic and then the brake is useless. I fully appreciate that the lines look smooth with the current arrangement, but it needs to be addressed or at least offer an option to switch to a thumb brake, or race rearsets with the master cylinder on. Would you accept an Audi RS8 with a hand brake that might or might not work?

Ride Height – (ok an experience not a technical issue) The silly thing that made me mad. You pay 20k to 30k for a bike and you can’t even adjust the chain as you need to correct the ride height. Not a problem but tell people this before they purchase the bike and many will add it to the bill. I bought mine out right and I would have purchased one instantly at the time or taken measurements.

I wouldn’t buy my F4 until I knew I could be 100% independent of MV for servicing and maintenance, given the issues with the dealer network and the history. I might add this is the same for all bikes I own. A hybrid F4 would make me nervous of having a bike that develops a fault and no one can fix, and takes ages to get it fixed by the factory.

You know I will do anything for the brand or another MV owner, and I hope that the F4 is revived as a petrol model much quicker than 5 years and then transition / develop an F4h and or F4e as time, technology and quality permits.

A new Petrol F4, short term

Clearly a new F4 takes some time and the engine is the current issue, but it could be updated. Here MV must break the current cycle of a special basically being a few bolt on bits, wheels etc and different colour bodywork and calling it a limited edition.

Assuming the Euro5 regs can be complied with and maintain the power ( yes not easy), then my hit list would be: ( in no order)

  • Much more advanced electronics, slide control etc, if MV can’t do this for a known platform, an E bike is a bigger task
  • Built in GPS and logging to dash or phone (if phone must be android and iphone)
  • Bluetooth link to the Dash to say you have missed a call or got a text
  • Pit lane limiter
  • launch control
  • Engine heater
  • The trellis frame is part of the DNA and I would love to see it remain
  • Suspension, I would say ditch the Marzocchi /Sachs and Ohlins, and go quality and race inspired. K-tech or Mupo would be a bold and I think a clear differentiation, break from the crowd.
  • Seat unit and sub frame would be nice if it was a stressed Carbon structure.
  • Drop the tank for mass centralisation i.e like the WSB, clearly this needs a swing arm and link change but we know what to do.
  • Clutch, no launch issues
  • Exhaust, we need a light weight system, it weights far too much and, in my opinion, causes issues being so high up as mass. The same goes for headers, the current F4 headers are a little 1990’s an R1 or GSXR would be lighter
  • A bigger radiator, there is room, and it would help with the heat issues
  • Quick release number plate hanger
  • Some storage space, the current F4 has no storage space. With the ABS, I can’t even put my phone under the seat.
  • Every bike gets a carpet and a cover. I don’t care about the carpet, but many do.
  • Oh and a clock, please please add a clock to the display, I have got into so much trouble with my wife due to losing track of time
Like I say I love MV and especially the F4, but please don't leave us 5 years with no F4, and I am worried about the large technology step, given MV's track record of delivery and quality. This is not meant to be negative.
Aron you know i respect everything you say and i agree with you. F4 has been englected thats why it hasnt done well thats why its sales doesnt represent its true potential to ditch it

Did you here why lamborghini stopped making tractors and started making cars .....


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Discussion Starter #16
That's a great question - I just can't see any future in petrol combustion engines apart from being in a museum and parade events. Pressure and time can only produce fossil fuel at a certain rate, and the human population will outstrip it far, far faster than it can regenerate. Just look at how the worlds population has doubled since WW2 - but I digress.

I'm certain (or rather hope) that it will last for our lifetimes, but I think MV, like every other manufacturer, has to build electric into their range to avoid stalling.
Im not saying dont make electric but make a separate electric mv and leave F4 makes more sense you test the market see what happens. I dont believe the oil reserves are finite we have been told that so we pay more for it but your right we wont see the end of fossil fuels for another 100 years none of us will be here but at Least we had fun on some crazy engines that moved your soul


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Discussion Starter #17
Come on guys we need your opinions here people are reading the post and not replying. We have a voice here dont be lazy let me hear what you think


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Come on guys we need your opinions here people are reading the post and not replying. We have a voice here dont be lazy let me hear what you think


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Even if you don't have an opinion, tell him. Its all information, you need the passionate Yes's, No's and frankly not bothered too to create an informed feedback to the factory
 
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I purchased my first bike, a Honda CB175, in 1970. I vaguely recall some of the magazine and general talk then about these motors that 'rev their guts out' and the oppositions 'screaming two strokes'. Much of this came from owners of the 'traditional' BSA, Triumph, Norton, AJS, Vincent, Matchless, et al. Those bikes now survive only by the care of serious collectors, replaced by the (then) new era of 'Jap shit flooding the market'. I recall many such statements and put downs when I went to watch scrambles.

I make this long-winded intro as a preface to the well-worn cliche that we (as a race) do not adapt well to change. I accept there is a difference between the various types of combustion engine versus the electric bike, but my view is that the resultant shift in consumer acceptance will be the same.

As already stated by some members, there is a huge swell of opinion to ditch the highly polluting combustion engines from society. There are opponents who claim that there is more environmental damage in the harvesting and maintenance/disposal of batteries. I admit I am not well informed in that area.

My view is that I echo other members belief that MV is merely 'gearing up' for the new era (rather than creating it!) so they will be one or two steps ahead of market demand instead of miles behind as they had been over many years. I love my 1st gen F4, and treasure it not only for its pleasure, but what it stands for in motorcycling history. Many might say that iconic bike cannot be repeated in any future release. But never say never. I would NEVER have purchased a Triumph until the recent Daytona 765 Moto 2 grabbed all my senses and emotions. On that basis, I could be a future MV Agusta customer - if they produced something special. For me, an electric bike will never be 'special' although I do concede they might have their place - just not in my garage.

So, what faces MV is the question: can we sustain sales with an 'enthusiast's' bike that sells so poorly it has to be subsidised by other models? And therein lies the answer.
 

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I am a fairly new MV owner, I have a 2004 B4. And it's the only bike I have ever owned. I love it. That said the future is coming and whether we like it or not, it electric. I think it's the right choice to launch their first hybrid/electric bike under the F4 badge. As you have all said it is an icon of the brand. For me the best approach would be a hybrid under the same style as the McLaren P1. That thing uses the electronic part to compensate for the drawbacks of the combustion engine. A bike can be the same. Let's be honest if your cruising along at motorway speeds have the smooth fuel efficiency of an electric motor has its appeal. Then when the road gets twisty the petrol kicks in.

That's my 2p worth anyway.
 
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