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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Saw this on the Duc site. The Tri color is starting to grow on me and the more I look at it, the more I like it. Forget the strip on the fuel tank. Someone on the site said that it's a history thing about a see thru fuel gage that used to be one one of the old bikes.
 

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It looks better in the studio light, the stage lighting wasn't doing it any favors...That being said, I just hope the green really isn't that sea-foamy in real life, I hope it is greener.

Griff
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Discussion Starter #4
Looks a lot LESS like a CBR1000 with the tri color. Some one could even get the base 15k bike and have it custom painted like the tricolor and save 15k.
 

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Sorry, guys, but IMO Ducati has completely lost all sense of style. No longer able to come up with cohesive designs, they now offer bike with a Honda tank, MV rear section, seat from the 999 and fairing from a Yamaha. The tacky afterthought of a piece of foil on the tank just screams "Remember how we used to make REALLY cool looking bikes". Should call it the Ducati 998R-1.
 

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emmvee said:
Sorry, guys, but IMO Ducati has completely lost all sense of style. No longer able to come up with cohesive designs, they now offer bike with a Honda tank, MV rear section, seat from the 999 and fairing from a Yamaha. The tacky afterthought of a piece of foil on the tank just screams "Remember how we used to make REALLY cool looking bikes". Should call it the Ducati 998R-1.
it's all about opinion, of course
for the record...... the seat looks NOTHING like that from the 999 :)



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spalding12 said:
that would be great...
with ducati bringing there 1188cc "R" motor to THAT table.....
i wonder what MV will have up ITS sleeve to be competitive?

I am afraid all of the 4 cylinder bikes will have a difficult time being competitive with the new 1200cc Ducati because of the torque advantage.....20% more torque with equal horsepower will be dominating !!

(unless WSBK equalize this advantage with other variables/restrictions)
 

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jsdp said:
I am afraid all of the 4 cylinder bikes will have a difficult time being competitive with the new 1200cc Ducati because of the torque advantage.....20% more torque with equal horsepower will be dominating !!
"20% more torque with equal horsepower" will not only dominate in WSB but will turn the worlds of mathematics and physics upside down as well.
 

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I like it but I agree with Griff, the green looks a bit washed out, :eek: I hope it's more like the bright green on the Italian flag. :)
 

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jsdp said:
Not sure I understand your comment. Please clarify? :confused:
Mathematically speaking, there is a *direct* relationship between torque and horsepower. Increase one by a given percentage and you increase the other by the same percentage.

Any two motors making the same level of horsepower at a given RPM make the same amount of torque at that RPM. Can't increase (or decrease) one without doing the same to the other.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Jap bikes have a habbit of over Estimating the hp & torque numbers. anyone know if Ducati has the same habbit or have they been spot on in the past ?
 

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1fastf4 said:
Jap bikes have a habbit of over Estimating the hp & torque numbers. anyone know if Ducati has the same habbit or have they been spot on in the past ?

They also horribly underestimate the weight figures. We'll have to wait and see just how accurate the numbers are for the 1098. But think about it...

They claim to have knocked something like 50lbs off the bike... Motor's basically the same, forks are pretty much the same, tires the same, frame can't be significantly lighter due to the increased power... five years ago they got rid of the single-sided swingarm because they said a dual sided one was stronger and lighter... and most weight-saving measures (whether it's drilling of holes or using exotic materials like titanium, carbon fiber, magnesium) are very costly but this bike is cheaper. Go figure...

Yeah, you've got to wonder how true the claimed figures are. But if people actually had a problem with claimed figures the Japanese never would have sold so many bikes.
 

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emmvee said:
Mathematically speaking, there is a *direct* relationship between torque and horsepower. Increase one by a given percentage and you increase the other by the same percentage.

Any two motors making the same level of horsepower at a given RPM make the same amount of torque at that RPM. Can't increase (or decrease) one without doing the same to the other.
I am not an expert, but based on my basic knowledge of engines and others from this forum that I have learned from, in summary, if all other things/variables are equal, a 200cc advantage = a torque advantage(200/1000cc = 20%).

See the following thread for a great discussion about this topic and engines overall. I learned alot from it.

http://mvagusta.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4549&page=1&pp=10
 

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jsdp said:
I am not an expert, but based on my basic knowledge of engines and others from this forum that I have learned from, in summary, if all other things/variables are equal, a 200cc advantage = a torque advantage(200/1000cc = 20%).

See the following thread for a great discussion about this topic and engines overall. I learned alot from it.

http://mvagusta.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4549&page=1&pp=10

You're talking two different things here. Your original post said

jsdp said:
I am afraid all of the 4 cylinder bikes will have a difficult time being competitive with the new 1200cc Ducati because of the torque advantage.....20% more torque with equal horsepower will be dominating !!

More torque at equal HP is mathematically impossible. Now, from the thread you referenced, edited for brevity....

mikef4uk said:
I
HP = torque (ft/lbs) x rpm divided by 5252, and thats it, as simple as that,
Increase HP at a given RPM and you increase torque and vice-versa. No way around it.

Keep in mind racers don't use just PEAK power or MAXIMUM torque. Keep a bike at a fixed RPM and it won't accellerate at all, not without a CVT, which race bikes don't have, or running through a traction (electric) motor like a diesel railroad locomotive or using lots and LOTS of gears - more than motorcycles have.

Modern twins are designed so they can rev higher than the four-cylinder bikes of a few years ago. Fours are developed to reduce peakiness and provide wider powerbands. The characteristics of the two motors are becoming more similar but don't confuse that with the relationship between HP and torque. It's mathematical and linear. More HP = more torque as in the formula above.
 

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emmvee said:
You're talking two different things here. Your original post said




More torque at equal HP is mathematically impossible. Now, from the thread you referenced, edited for brevity....



Increase HP at a given RPM and you increase torque and vice-versa. No way around it.

Keep in mind racers don't use just PEAK power or MAXIMUM torque. Keep a bike at a fixed RPM and it won't accellerate at all, not without a CVT, which race bikes don't have, or running through a traction (electric) motor like a diesel railroad locomotive or using lots and LOTS of gears - more than motorcycles have.

Modern twins are designed so they can rev higher than the four-cylinder bikes of a few years ago. Fours are developed to reduce peakiness and provide wider powerbands. The characteristics of the two motors are becoming more similar but don't confuse that with the relationship between HP and torque. It's mathematical and linear. More HP = more torque as in the formula above.
I understand the HP formula, but what you are describing is the relationship between torque and horsepower in THE SAME ENGINE. I am talking about the comparison of absolute torque and horsepower between a V-Twin and a 4 cylinder (TWO DIFFERENT engine configurations).

It is well known that a 1000cc V-Twin doesn't make the same absolute horsepower as a 1000cc 4 cylinder ( or else Ducati would of had a V-Twin in MotoGP), and thats because it CAN'T REV AS HIGH. Remember HP= Torque x RPM/5252 and we are assuming that there theoretical absolute torque (= function of compression ratio/cylinder pressure and displacement) is the same. If we increase the V-twins displacement (compression ratio being equal), we will automatically increase torque.

If Ducati can't increase the RPMs and compression of their current V-Twin any higher, they need to increase their displacement in order to increase their horsepower to equal that of the 4 cylinder engines. So I am assuming that they mathematically calculated that to be an additional 200cc to equalize the horsepower with the 4 cylinder engines, which will in their case also increase their absolute torque by 20%.
 
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